The "Magic Move" of Skiing ?

[Steve]

Articulate.

(Flex and extend - ankles, knees, hips, sternum. All moving together like an articulated lamp.)

 

[Seldomski]

 

[JESinstr]

@Bad Bob Had the right short answer....Dynamic Balance. Balance while on the move.

But as @T-Square pointed out there is dynamic balance and then there is dynamic balance on a moving platform.

Off skis, we humans dynamically balance during the creation of locomotion (walking running skipping etc). But this method of dynamic balance is totally different from the method required for skiing. Human locomotion is accomplished by pushing and catching our mass using the opposite ends of our feet in a "rock over" method . We rely heavily on plantar flexion to push and absorb. On skis we need to learn to consistently and reliably balance through the arch supported by the balls of the foot and the heel but making sure that both support points are secure on the boot bed. How much we can move fore and aft under this construct is called the "Cone of Stability" See Kipp's video below.

@Steve has it right with articulation (sternum bending excluded) as the way we achieve dynamically balance through the arch. The ankles are the most important as they create the boot shin interface. Contrary to conventional wisdom the knees are relatively inconsequential as they are an intermediary to the flexing and extending of the ankles and hips. The hips are the most critical because in skiing, they don't tilt forward as they do when creating locomotion. This is a subtle but important difference.

Ron Kipp's "Flex Your Ankles" Video provides us with the fundamental magic move....Dorsiflexion..... the dynamic tension it brings to the ability to maintain a centered stance from which all the other "magic moves" emanate. .

Stand up and begin bouncing up and down (using the 3 hinges) so that your COM goes through the arch. Focus on the hip rotation. Pretty easy to do but you can see how quickly you could loose that balance point if your were on ice. Now, create tension by flexing your mid section (core) and dorsiflexion at the same time. You will see how the tension applied on the top of the hinge system and on the bottom provides a very controllable, stable platform bounded by the balls of the feet and heel.

It is the tension from dorsiflexion (vs plantar flexion) that is new to dynamic balance on a moving platform equation. Once a skier gets command of this movement pattern all the other "magic moves" will be possible.

 

[wallyk]

Does this really work? I'm lost just reading this summary and is technique leads to a called "magic move"?....I'm not trying to be a wise guy but the language described is some of the most technical and obsfucating that I've read for skiing. "Dorsiflexion"......is this for real?

Is it me, or do ski instructors make the sport almost overly technically complex? Candidly this seems worse than golf.

 

[wallyk]

I thought my girls to move past a wedge and into parallel skiing in four simple motions.

1. Pull the downhill ski back slightly. 2. On the downhill ski, bend your knee. 3. push the shin into the boot. 4.. press down with your toes. Once you feel comfortable with this, point your knee where you want to go.

Obviously more involved but with practice they get the point and begin to transition......is it me, or is there really not more to learning skiing?

 

[KingGrump]

“Any darn fool can make something complex; it takes a genius to make something simple.”
― Pete Seeger

“If you're not confused, you're not paying attention.”
― Tom Peters,

It's good that you care enough to read the whole thing. OTOH, don't believe everything you read on the internet.

 

[Steve]

@Steve has it right with articulation (sternum bending excluded)

The small amount of flexion available in the upper body makes a huge difference to keeping your weight forward and avoiding a too upright stance. Watch some CSIA skiers to see this clearly, but it was coached to me by a PSIA Examiner, Stan Wilkes.

It's not all about the ankles. It's the entire body, all joints working together. I find it much more effective to think this way than to think about one, or multiple individual joints.

A backhoe operator doesn't think about just one of the joints of the arm, they think about moving the bucket where they want it and let all of the joints work together to do this. Our skis are the bucket lol.

 

[JESinstr]

Does this really work? I'm lost just reading this summary and is technique leads to a called "magic move"?....I'm not trying to be a wise guy but the language described is some of the most technical and obsfucating that I've read for skiing. "Dorsiflexion"......is this for real?

Is it me, or do ski instructors make the sport almost overly technically complex? Candidly this seems worse than golf.

It is you. What I wrote I would never tell a student in a class. What's wrong with telling someone about to make their first straight run to balance through their arch and then lift their toes and tighten their stomach so that they can have a better chance at staying balanced while on the move? The problem is that many instructors either don't have the knowledge or don't take the time to teach and engrain this fundamental dynamic stance. Most DYI skiers also don't have the knowledge and the chance of them naturally learning it is remote because it is not obvious compared to off ski dynamic balance. As for being a magic move, I was just playing on the title of the thread. There is no magic, just knowledge.

 

[Dave Marshak]

There is no magic movement. Intermediates all want to be shown some magic movement that will make them ski as well as me (or as well as I skied in the past), but it's not about movements. It's about balance, which is an activity, not a movement.

The only magic is to work hard at it until you get it. It's a lot like real life that way.

dm

 

[1chris5]

Just point it!

 

[Steve]

Is it me, or do ski instructors make the sport almost overly technically complex? Candidly this seems worse than golf.

I thought my girls to move past a wedge and into parallel skiing in four simple motions.

1. Pull the downhill ski back slightly. 2. On the downhill ski, bend your knee. 3. push the shin into the boot. 4.. press down with your toes. Once you feel comfortable with this, point your knee where you want to go.

Now that's complex, I'd never try to teach that many movements to a wedge turner.

 

[Uncle-A]

Years ago an old instructor gave me a tip. Imagine you are skiing over a cigarette and when it gets to the ball of your foot mash it out. I do not smoke but I did know how to mash out a cigarette and it helped get past a plateau. I know that we do not ski like that today but it worked for me back in the day.

 

[Fuller]

I would have to say there are a number of "magic moves" depending on where you are on the learning curve.

 

[skier]

I don't think there is one move that will get you through every type of skiing. However, there is one big difference between expert skiers and intermediate skiers when initiating a turn. The vast majority of skiers do not know the simple, easy moves to start a turn, and instead they add in all sorts of extraneous motions typically with the upper body. All it takes are some very subtle motions with the lower body that are almost imperceptible which in essence tip the ski and keep it from steering off course. So, if there had to be a magic move, this would be it. What is that move? Despite all the experts, I doubt people would agree. There's a big ankle contingency here, though if an expert buckles down their boots, they can still make some sweet turns. There are lots of great skiers that ski without cuff slop. And without cuff slop, there's not much the ankles can add to tipping, though they add to steering. However, if you magically made it impossible to move your femur, i.e. knee angulation, you might be in trouble. I would even say that ankle advocates aren't even aware how much knee angulation they use, and where'd they be without it. Bam! shot across the bow, bring it on. So, the magic move is knee angulation. Knee angulation does not mean bending the knee sideways. It's like what Wallyk refers to as pointing the knee where you want to go.

 

[markojp]

The magic move? To a place in close proximity to a ski area with time and money to use it with great regularity.

 

[Dave Marshak]

I once asked a race coach how I could learn to ski as well as him. He told me "quit your job." So I did.

Years later I ran into him at a coaches' clinic. He was right.

dm

 

[wallyk]

f

Now that's complex, I'd never try to teach that many movements to a wedge turner.

Wow!!!! So what is the magic move?

 

[Wilhelmson]

Point your skis down the hill.

 

[Steve]

f


Wow!!!! So what is the magic move?

Well I did post something - Articulation - but like others I don't believe there is a magic move.

You had commented on Instructors over-complicating things and then posted a complex set of things, I was just reacting to that.

When I instruct people what I think is the "magic" movement is different for each student depending upon what they can do at that moment in time. There is no one thing, it's very personal and a continuum of developmental advances.

 

[fatbob]

The magic move - check if the corners of your mouth turn up at the end of a run. Anything beyond that is just details.