The Giant Resort Companies You Hate Are Saving Skiing

[SkiNurse]

Yep, I admit, I've been one to bitch about the resort companies gobbling up resorts (No, not Crested Butte!!!), but have defnitely taken advantage of the multi resort passes: Rocky Mountain Super Pass, Epic, Mountain Collective and now Ikon.If you ski a lot, or even not so much, these multi resort passes make skiing almost affordable.

From Outside Magazine:
https://www.outsideonline.com/23670...t Resort Companies You Hate Are Saving Skiing

 

[Josh Matta]

its short term.

 

[JohnnyG]

its short term.

Go on...

 

[Ken_R]

Yep, I admit, I've been one to bitch about the resort companies gobbling up resorts (No, not Crested Butte!!!), but have defnitely taken advantage of the multi resort passes: Rocky Mountain Super Pass, Epic, Mountain Collective and now Ikon.If you ski a lot, or even not so much, these multi resort passes make skiing almost affordable.

From Outside Magazine:
https://www.outsideonline.com/2367016/keep-skiing-weird?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Dispatch-11292018&utm_content=Dispatch-11292018+Version+A+CID_3b48f786bdf1edd3502087700a767232&utm_source=campaignmonitor outsidemagazine&utm_term=The Giant Resort Companies You Hate Are Saving Skiing

The Ski Industry is not exempt from what has happened and is still happening in just about all other industries in the world. Large companies buying out smaller ones and creating these mega corporate conglomerates. It is the natural path of growth with our current economic system. In the case of skiing greatly expanding ski terrain is extremely difficult so its much easier for a large ski area to expand by buying another one. So most small ski areas will survive by being absorbed by the larger ones if the are close enough to a population center. In Colorado the appetite for ski terrain is almost endless.

Smaller companies cash in and the larger ones benefit from the economics of scale and access to more capital, it snowballs from there.

Regarding the ski areas, do we benefit? So far yes. Specially now that IKON is in the game. How do we benefit? Large capital improvements to the ski resorts are now much more possible and much easier and faster to realize and pass holders get (mostly) unlimited access to a plethora of ski resorts worldwide.

 

[jmeb]

Go on...

- Giant resort conglomerates are making it more difficult for small areas to stay in business, as they pull more skiers to their hills for variety of reasons.
- Skiing at G.R.C. has a higher cost of entry than skiing at a small local hill.
- Less people get hooked on skiing at small resorts because their are less of them.

This is the logic anyway. Whether it will end up that way, time will tell.

 

[jmeb]

My beef with the article is that it doesn't have any evidence to directly support the claim in its headline. All it shows is that under certain circumstances, skiing is cheaper due to giant resort conglomerates.

To save skiing you need to be creating more skiers, a new generation of skiers, and convincing them to ski more days annually. Not simply making it more affordable for people who are skiing 20 days a season at a G.R.C. Is that happening? Maybe, maybe not. But I don't know based on this article.

 

[HardDaysNight]

I’m pretty sure Park City, Deer Valley, Whistler and Crested Butte didn’t need to be “saved” by Vail or Alterra. They seemed to be doing just fine operationally and financially. In the case of PC it was a forced sale; for the rest owners appear to have received very full value for their assets and decided to cash out.

 

[Jim Kenney]

Alta is one of those very special places that has one foot in the Mom&Pop camp and one foot in the conglomerate camp via MCP and IKON, but Alta still sells a $10 afternoon ticket for the Sunnyside lift (800'+ vertical) that is a wonderful way to draw newbies, young families, and very casual skiers into the sport.

 

[Marker]

Not quite the same, but Powdr keeps Pico right around the corner from Killington as a more affordable option.

 

[Andy Mink]

What held me back initially from GRC's is the initial price of the pass ($600-$700 sounds like a lot) and the gamble that there will be decent conditions enough times to get my money's worth. Same goes for smaller areas whose pass prices are close to the GRC's. Now that I've had GRC passes for three seasons (Epic, MC, and now IKON) I know that, barring injury, I WILL get my money's worth. The initial hesitation had to be broken as I got back into the sport. This year? IKON and Mt. Rose passes and I'll get my $$ worth. I just didn't know what my money was worth 4 years ago!

It used to be I'd ski one, maybe two areas per year. In the last three years I've done eight, nine if you count two runs at Squaw on the itty-bitty hill, ten if you count two runs at Chez Ziggy. That may not sound like a lot to some but for me it's a revelation!

As far as whether or not the GRC's are "saving" skiing, maybe. It won't matter, though, if there are no new skiers/boarders coming up to take the place of those who are leaving the sport.

 

[cantunamunch]

Not quite the same, but Powdr keeps Pico right around the corner from Killington as a more affordable option.

Just wait until they snag Timberline

 

[Mike Rogers]

Giant corporations also purchase ad space in Outdoor Magazine.

There are obvious benefits for a certain type of skier, but we will see how this plays out.

 

[4aprice]

The place I/we (wife and I) are in now, the GRC's are great. We are flatlanders, weekend warriors and quasi empty nesters . Keeping a pass at a local area along with an Ikon for weekends up in Northern New England and vacations out west to Colorado/Utah has the snow season going by very quickly. However if our kids were still small, and we were budgeting for 4 instead of 2 I think I would focus more on say The Freedom Pass or the Colorado Gems card. I certainly enjoy the big resorts and famous runs but we also over the years enjoyed the some the lesser known smaller independent ski areas. There's been a lot of talk where the sport is going and how to make it more doable for the next generation coming up and so on. Well if I was asked by someone interested in taking up the sport I would push the idea of using these smaller "feeder" hills.

 

[UGASkiDawg]

What held me back initially from GRC's is the initial price of the pass ($600-$700 sounds like a lot) and the gamble that there will be decent conditions enough times to get my money's worth. Same goes for smaller areas whose pass prices are close to the GRC's. Now that I've had GRC passes for three seasons (Epic, MC, and now IKON) I know that, barring injury, I WILL get my money's worth. The initial hesitation had to be broken as I got back into the sport. This year? IKON and Mt. Rose passes and I'll get my $$ worth. I just didn't know what my money was worth 4 years ago!

It used to be I'd ski one, maybe two areas per year. In the last three years I've done eight, nine if you count two runs at Squaw on the itty-bitty hill, ten if you count two runs at Chez Ziggy. That may not sound like a lot to some but for me it's a revelation!

As far as whether or not the GRC's are "saving" skiing, maybe. It won't matter, though, if there are no new skiers/boarders coming up to take the place of those who are leaving the sport.

Pics or it didn't happen....oh and it must include pre ski and après ski pics

 

[marjoram_sage]

Passes may bring down your $/day cost of lift tickets but increase the total $$ spent on skiing. By committing to a pass you end up skiing more and spending more. There are other sizable costs in skiing like lodging, transportation, food, lessons and gear. I think the large ski resorts have a Vegas casino model. The hotel rooms are loss leaders like the ski pass and the money maker is all the other services. They make the resort really large so you will find it painful to leave the resort and end up consuming a lot of their services.

Ski resorts aren't competing only with each other but with other discretionary spending. I would have probably spent the money I didn't spend on skiing on gadgets or furniture or another hobby like scuba. These GRCs are using clever marketing tactics to get people to spend more money on skiing.

The locals may be able to keep their spending limited by not spending on resort food, lodging or lessons and maybe the passes have reduced cost of skiing for them.

 

[cantunamunch]

Ski resorts aren't competing only with each other but with other discretionary spending. I would have probably spent the money I didn't spend on skiing on gadgets or furniture or another hobby like scuba. These GRCs are using clever marketing tactics to get people to spend more money on skiing.
.

So long as those clever marketing tactics include 'devoting time, money and advertising to bring never-evers into the sport', I wouldn't call all of what you cite a bad thing.

Competition with other discretionary spending - absolutely.

 

[UGASkiDawg]

There are other things to spend money on than skiing? Huh who knew? You learn such vague obscure things on this site!

 

[SSSdave]

So what can we pin on the conglomerates? The cheapest skiing in decades. Spend $900 on a pass, ski 20 days, and you’re paying $45 per day—or about $12 and change in 1978–79 money, when the average lift ticket cost $11.

As a frugal peon, never been one of the conglomerate gripers. My average lift ticket cost of skiing days last year was $17 and note almost never eat lunch at resorts. But rather adding to that cost, gasoline transportation costs were about $60 a round trip and lodging about $60 a night. And will be even more content Vail when y'all fix the nauseating decades old slow long long Backside Chair 4 ride issue at Kirkwood.

 

[Jilly]

I now have a cheaper pass with Ikon. Like $400 cheaper. My lodging cost went up $100 this season. Not sure about on hill expenses yet. Haven't eaten on mountain yet. But Alterra has done good things at Tremblant. New lift, expanding seating in the day lodges, some new runs that are not open yet....But I'm concerned about down the road. What will the crowds be like now that the Collingwood crowd can ski unlimited. Abet they will have to pay for lodging. There was definitely an increase with the MAX pass over the last few years in crowds. But Alterra seems to want to do it right. That remains to be seen.

 

[WheatKing]

As someone who doesn't hold an epic or ikon pass (closest area is 3 hours.. many are much much much further.. no sense) these are just driving up the cost of tickets at the window, which is going to shutout new people to the sport. For people that go a few times a year, a family of 4 could be a $500/day outing.. before lodging or meals.. I do ok for work.. but not well enough to justify $500/day just for the opportunity to slide around with my kids a few times a season.

I didn't buy passes at my local hill this year either.. my youngest turned 6, which meant her pass went from $50 to $474.. but her pass with lessons (4 hour ticket) was just $11.25 an outing for 8 weeks. All together seasons passes would run me $1250.. and that doesn't include the lessons.. another $520 for my 2 kids for 8 weeks.. and this is for 250' of vert.. with an hour drive each way.

Driving up to ski country where the hills are 300-600' of vert.. (min 3 hour drive one way) I'd be looking at double that.

I just noticed the Blue mountain, used to have a all day ticket (9am ~ 9pm) that was $89ish.. for the walk up.. now an 8 hour ticket is $84.. Luckily I do ok collecting airmiles, which I can use the points to get tickets for next to nothing..

I think the "feeder hills" are suffering and raising rates to cover, and the big guys are monopolizing on the multi-pass.

If you've got a multi-pass.. it feels like skiing for free.. so you'll splurge a bit at the base.. treat yourself to après.. longer lunch break.. I figure costs of these epic and ikon passes cover the base operating costs of getting skiers up the hills and they make it up on the "experience" via affiliated food/bars/shops

Dunno.. double edged sword.. If you're already a skier and have the time.. it's great.. if you're new.. it's throwing up artificial barriers (they have to justify the higher multi-pass price by cranking the walkup price) and we see that all over with walk-up rates that are insane. I can't imagine it costs a lot to spin a lift for the day.. the ROI on a 6pack or 8 pack is probably huge, considering pass prices and walk up prices..

Maybe i'm just cheap.. LOL