The fascinating wedge

[bud heishman]

The reality is, this demo is pedantic at best.

I look at coaching like this.

First you have a solid wedge turn doing proper leg steering mostly with some minor balance transfer and tipping move, and you coach open parallel on on easy slope. Is the student going to wedge christie on their way their? yep, but do we need to make instructors do a contrived exercises for exam or pay so much attention it? Really I think not.

The other one that drive me crazy about the wedge and wedge christie demos in exams is this idea. I coach open parallel on the easiest slope I can find. Quite often in exams they have candidate do these task on steeper than easiest terrain and it just doesnt make sense to me, and I feel it also show these PSIA people the wrong idea about these levels of skiing. I feel that the only success I ever have with teaching offensive matched moves to the majority of people is starting on the easiest or almost easiest terrain.

agree! A wedge turn with a rotary emphasis quickly becomes a christie. If we teach an edge release from the beginning the wedge morphs quickly to a parallel turn provided we remain on non threatening terrain!

 

[bbinder]

Well, I have to say I totally disagree with that. Everything that is wrong with those skiers parallel will be present in their wedges and wedge christies and can be addressed there. Spending some time working to get it right will make them a better skier. There is a big difference too between teaching a ski instructor and teaching the public. I would never, ever "teach a wedge christie" to someone who is not an instructor. A wedge-christie is just something that happens somewhere between wedge and parallel. But an instructor has to understand it.

and this is exactly why it is an exam demonstration. No, most instructors do not teach it but they should understand the mechanics of it and be able to demonstrate the skills required to do it properly.

And I concur with Mr. Matta regarding the observation that many PSIA instructors can not demonstrate the wedge christie properly, but this does not mean the top end of PSIA does not recognize the proper skills of a wedge christie. and regarding the phantom move and alignment, some PSIA folks have been doing this before HH was relevant. The bottom line is this demonstration highlights parallel turn mechanics which bridge the gap between wedge turns and parallel turns. As Josh suggested, if the proper parallel turn mechanics are taught/learned using a wedge ski position as training wheels, the skier will easily and smoothly transition into christies. At this juncture developing an earlier weight shift and an accurate trajectory will lead to parallel turns provided the student is kept in a non threatening environment permitting them to maintain an offensive attitude.

I am very proud of my current ski school at Northstar where we as a training group emphasize the rotary skill in lower level turns with our new hires and level I candidates to insure they understand the contrast between the different skill blends and their effects. Unfortunately, even after 10 days of training for each new hire, I still see many go to pressure and edging skills right away. It is frustrating to say the least but we keep hounding them to focus on the rotary emphasis.

Sooooo, in the PSIA progression, how do you teach going from a wedge or wedge Christie to maintaining a parallel stance throughout the turn? Why has it been so difficult for me (and for most skiers, if I may say so) to eliminate the remnants of a stem in our turn? Even being a believer/acolyte of the Barnes offensive or "Go" turn, why is it so difficult, and how do you teach someone, to rid oneself of that last remnant of defensiveness that the residual stem offers? I have been consciously working on my skiing with coaching and reading for the past (almost) ten years, and that feeling of my upper body moving across my skis (or my skis moving laterally past my body), and my skis staying parallel throughout the turn is only really happening in the last year or so.

 

[Tricia]

Well, I have to say I totally disagree with that. Everything that is wrong with those skiers parallel will be present in their wedges and wedge christies and can be addressed there. Spending some time working to get it right will make them a better skier. There is a big difference too between teaching a ski instructor and teaching the public. I would never, ever "teach a wedge christie" to someone who is not an instructor. A wedge-christie is just something that happens somewhere between wedge and parallel. But an instructor has to understand it.

I agree. The revelation of things I needed to fix were magnified when I was learning to demonstrate the wedge christie.
Like anything in life, its easier to fix when you understand it better. Another thing I noticed when skiing on Wednesday, I am more aware of it when I get "stemmy", and why its happening because of this exercise in humility.

 

[Josh Matta]

Sooooo, in the PSIA progression, how do you teach going from a wedge or wedge Christie to maintaining a parallel stance throughout the turn? Why has it been so difficult for me (and for most skiers, if I may say so) to eliminate the remnants of a stem in our turn? Even being a believer/acolyte of the Barnes offensive or "Go" turn, why is it so difficult, and how do you teach someone, to rid oneself of that last remnant of defensiveness that the residual stem offers? I have been consciously working on my skiing with coaching and reading for the past (almost) ten years, and that feeling of my upper body moving across my skis (or my skis moving laterally past my body), and my skis staying parallel throughout the turn is only really happening in the last year or so.

If I had to guess and if you skied with me for a 3 turns it would not be a guess.......

Your alignment is off.

You do nt release your old outside ski using phantom move type movements

You are to far forward when the skis are flat(ala the infinity move)

and bunch of other things. It all heresy with out at least a video.

you can also ski defensively with out ever stemming or wedging, a well done pivot slip is fast line slow skiing with out any stemming or wedging. most people think a pivot slip is primary a rotary move, really its one of the hardest balance and edging moves around. But I agree slow line fast skiing and mentality can get help get rid of a stem.

 

[Erik Timmerman]

Sooooo, in the PSIA progression, how do you teach going from a wedge or wedge Christie to maintaining a parallel stance throughout the turn? Why has it been so difficult for me (and for most skiers, if I may say so) to eliminate the remnants of a stem in our turn? Even being a believer/acolyte of the Barnes offensive or "Go" turn, why is it so difficult, and how do you teach someone, to rid oneself of that last remnant of defensiveness that the residual stem offers? I have been consciously working on my skiing with coaching and reading for the past (almost) ten years, and that feeling of my upper body moving across my skis (or my skis moving laterally past my body), and my skis staying parallel throughout the turn is only really happening in the last year or so.

Lift and tip.

Just kidding. I don't think there is one magic bullet that fits everyone. Let's go skiing sometime.

 

[bbinder]

Lift and tip.

Just kidding. I don't think there is one magic bullet that fits everyone. Let's go skiing sometime.

Definitely! Next time we come to Stowe, I will contact you ahead of time! As a student, I think that lift and tip to release makes a lot of sense. Combine that with allowing the pressure to build on inside edge of the new outside ski instead of forcing a lot of pressure on it has Been the recipe for me to make round, parallel turns. Part of my point is that so many of us get to a certain point in our skiing where we feel that we are 'good enough', stop taking lessons, and assume that we are advanced or experts. This is the approach that had me missing out on a lot of good stuff over years -- meaning not really having the ability to ski more difficult and interesting terrain, and to ski more efficiently, so my much abused knees can handle all of it. If there was an easy to understand, and implement, progression, then I think that more people might continue with lessons, IMHO. And Josh, I think that Bud Heischman might take some umbrage at you suggesting that my alignment is off.

 

[Living Proof]

Well, I have to say I totally disagree with that. Everything that is wrong with those skiers parallel will be present in their wedges and wedge christies and can be addressed there. Spending some time working to get it right will make them a better skier. There is a big difference too between teaching a ski instructor and teaching the public. I would never, ever "teach a wedge christie" to someone who is not an instructor. A wedge-christie is just something that happens somewhere between wedge and parallel. But an instructor has to understand it.

Upon further review, I find Epic's thoughts insightful regarding the value of wedge instruction for instructors. I believe in the concept of "form follows function". Coaching instructors must be different than coaching students. Lower level PSIA instructors primarily teach new and less skilled skiers, so being skilled both at instructing and at demonstrating wedge turns is required. I'll appreciate this a lot more when I observe the training of new instructors at my local hill. Given the safety of the general public starting to ski, I can not imagine getting directly to parallel without understanding and demonstrating competency with wedge turns. For sure, I do not understand the nuances of the various wedges described above and how they relate to getting to more efficient parallel skiing faster, so, I'll be a little less judgmental.

The issue raised above of eliminating the wedge remains a more fascinating issue for most of we Pugskiers.

 

[Josh Matta]

Definitely! Next time we come to Stowe, I will contact you ahead of time! As a student, I think that lift and tip to release makes a lot of sense. Combine that with allowing the pressure to build on inside edge of the new outside ski instead of forcing a lot of pressure on it has Been the recipe for me to make round, parallel turns. Part of my point is that so many of us get to a certain point in our skiing where we feel that we are 'good enough', stop taking lessons, and assume that we are advanced or experts. This is the approach that had me missing out on a lot of good stuff over years -- meaning not really having the ability to ski more difficult and interesting terrain, and to ski more efficiently, so my much abused knees can handle all of it. If there was an easy to understand, and implement, progression, then I think that more people might continue with lessons, IMHO. And Josh, I think that Bud Heischman might take some umbrage at you suggesting that my alignment is off.

hey you said reason, those are my reason with out ever seeing you ski, its shots in the dark......



Living Proof the reality is the majority of wedge turns you have seen are dead end piece of crap. I am sure that all PMTSer think all wedge turns are crap.

A well done wedge turn shows separation at the hip socket, show inside ski tipping and unweighting, and the stance width doesnt get wide, and you do push you ski out or up. If you are doing all of those things is actually really hard to keep wedge turning.

 

[bbinder]

hey you said reason, those are my reason with out ever seeing you ski, its shots in the dark.......

Understood! You saw my wink, right?

 

[Josh Matta]

oh yeah

 

[Kneale Brownson]

Sooooo, in the PSIA progression, how do you teach going from a wedge or wedge Christie to maintaining a parallel stance throughout the turn? Why has it been so difficult for me (and for most skiers, if I may say so) to eliminate the remnants of a stem in our turn? Even being a believer/acolyte of the Barnes offensive or "Go" turn, why is it so difficult, and how do you teach someone, to rid oneself of that last remnant of defensiveness that the residual stem offers? I have been consciously working on my skiing with coaching and reading for the past (almost) ten years, and that feeling of my upper body moving across my skis (or my skis moving laterally past my body), and my skis staying parallel throughout the turn is only really happening in the last year or so.

To address the first two questions, the problem is the movement to the new outside ski without releasing and continuing to guide the new inside ski. So you end up using the skis separately instead of blending their use simultaneously. There HAS TO be a moment when you are standing equally on both skies that are flat on the slope. You must pass through a point when you are perpendicular to the slope to avoid your one-two step.

 

[bud heishman]

Wedges are training wheels, Wedge Christies are milestones rather than technique, parallel turns are the goal and everything before them should reflect embryonic stages of this goal. Anything which contradicts parallel turn mechanics should be flushed from the agenda.

Nowhere in a parallel turn is there a stem movement. This is where HH's "phantom turn" is applicable because you can not stem without a platform from which to stem.