The Awkwardness of no Dropper.

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Josh Matta

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no what I meant is that their primary sponsors dont make a good dropper post.....

like say I was sponsored by SRAM on the frame I run I am forced to run a125mm dropper but if I was open to other companies I could get a 180mm on to the same frame....
 

Erik Timmerman

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Yeah, that must be it, the riders choose not to use droppers because they can't get long enough droppers. Why didn't I see that before?
 
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Josh Matta

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and reliability...
 

EricG

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Just throw out the damn seat post. No need for a post or a seat. Saves weight and well is totally cool.
 

Wilhelmson

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How does that feel on your knee's? I know mine would be crying never being able to get fulled extended and the LA flushed from them.
Most of my rides aren't full day excursions and I stay in reasonable shape so I cope. Not saying it's ideal. I'm basically riding the skiing equivalent of first generation shaped skis.
 

Ross Biff

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The first time I installed a dropper because "everyone has one " , I used it madly for a week and then the novelty wore off and I used it less and less. I came to the conclusion that my regular riding terrain just didn't warrant a dropper. I moved to a new area with more challenging terrain and found myself getting more use out of it on a 140ish travel bike....so...not a necessity but sometimes useful for me. YMMV.
 

Primoz

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I just saw lately that dropper is definitely overrated. I noticed I can ride my xc bike with seat up down black bike trails just as fine and just as fast (actually faster) as majority of other people with 160/160 fully equipped FR bikes. Only thing I need to work on is how to better handle wet terrain with almost slick 2.25 paper thin xc tires... especially now when dry summer is over and everything is getting muddier and muddier :roflmao:
 
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Josh Matta

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again you being able to match some unknown speed is pretty meaningless. Also the real question is would you be faster with a dropper than you would be with out dropper. You are literally a former World class athlete. Sure you can beat some slubs who have a burlier bike than you.

I use to set KOM on downhills on 100mm XC bike seat up....once strava caught on those times dropped, and I am now MUCH faster on those same downs in much worse fitness.

what I find interesting is how much easier these average riders can ride the MSA XC course than the mid/back pros who are literally suppose to be the best in the world. watching the XC riders getting back in the rock garden and loosing all semblence of steering.

watching this video and watching people go over the bars because their ego wont let them run something that will make it safer and easier just makes me think XC racers are literally dumb.

 

Primoz

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Also the real question is would you be faster with a dropper than you would be with out dropper. You are literally a former World class athlete. Sure you can beat some slubs who have a burlier bike than you.
I probably wouldn't be any faster with dropper on my bike then with no dropper on same bike, but I would certainly be faster with some AM/FR bike, dropper or no dropper. As for "some slubs on burlier bike", you don't really need power or stamina on those trails to be fast, so "burlier bike" with more DH oriented geometry is big plus not minus, as there's no pedaling sections or anything where xc bike and rider in better should would give benefit.

I use to set KOM on downhills on 100mm XC bike seat up....once strava caught on those times dropped, and I am now MUCH faster on those same downs in much worse fitness.
what I find interesting is how much easier these average riders can ride the MSA XC course than the mid/back pros who are literally suppose to be the best in the world. watching the XC riders getting back in the rock garden and loosing all semblence of steering.
watching this video and watching people go over the bars because their ego wont let them run something that will make it safer and easier just makes me think XC racers are literally dumb.
I'm pretty sure bikes did change in last decade and again, bike geometry plays way bigger role then dropper, even if in this thread you decided it's only about dropper and dropper is key to everything. Dropper is comfortable but realistically doesn't bring much more then comfort. You get exactly same benefit getting behind seat, with just a little bit more effort, but there's no way to properly compensate for that 5 degree difference in head angle that today's AM/FR/enduro bikes have compared to xc bikes. And exactly that, and not dropper, (plus xc tires which are "a bit" different then what most of you are used to ride) makes problems to those racers you are talking about. Sure they could easy ride enduro bikes on those trails, and I'm sure they would get some 10 or 15sec on downhills, but lose 2min on uphills, so maybe they are not so "literally dumb", as you say. ;) And those two riding this course weren't riding it with xc bike, which brings us back to geometry again. It's just way more then just dropper ;)
 

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We are here in Michigan ridng relatively flat trails, the 11.5 mile ride we did only had about 300' feet of climbing. Seeing all the other bikes at the trailhead, I actually noticed that most were hard tails and very few had droppers.
 
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Josh Matta

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again you being able to do something is meaningless. I have personally set KOM on a 29lb single speed hardtail climbing...does that means its the best tool for the job f no, it just means I was able to make it work on that day

getting behind your seat does not do the same things, I posted a video of WC XC riders getting behind their seat and then endoing as they couldnt not turn. yes they are not on XC bike but almost no one is these day, I have seen 2 XC bikes being ridden this entire year at my local trail system 2!!! The guys here I pass had XC bikes the first guy had to walk the trail because he couldnt control his bike behind the saddle, and the guy I passed after the little climb got caught buy a 13 year old riding with a dropper equiped all mountain bike




no one around here use an XC bike for just riding anymore and the XC guys do nt even ride their race bikes on trail rides any more. in the last video I posted I think it says something that Neff was fastest though that one A/B section with her saddle down low and forward.


One thing to keep in mind about today's slacked bikes is that you need to be FORWARD to get them to turn which kind of makes them dependent on a droppers, more so than traditional XC bikes for sure. My old Anthem X didnt mind haaving the seat up in turns, but my current bike do. I will never own another bike with a steeper than 69 degree head angle again because they dont ride my local trail well at all.

you can lose 2 minutes on uphills in a WC race with a dropper....lol my guess is loss climbing is like 4-5 seconds maybe over the whole race if you lucky but its not rotating weight, and honestly I doubt anyone could feel an extra 200 grams of weight on a bike that is not rotating.
 
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Josh Matta

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We are here in Michigan ridng relatively flat trails, the 11.5 mile ride we did only had about 300' feet of climbing. Seeing all the other bikes at the trailhead, I actually noticed that most were hard tails and very few had droppers.
again many people are resistant to change, I will say that flat trails with little pumping opportunity are where dropper will help the least. I bet that story changes in if you went up to copper harbor. With that said on a flat trail with modern geometery I corner faster with a dropper and I suspect anyone who corner properly and is well versed with how to use it would be as well.

These are some strava segments from place I lived by for a summer, I started the summer with no dropper on my Honzo and even was riding my anthem X 29er with no dropper alittle bit as well, but my fastest time there were set on Single speed Honzo with a dropper. There is literally no elevation change and my fastest time with a dropper was 20 seconds faster than my fastest with out a dropper, and when I was with out the dropper my bike was 2lb lighter since it was light aluminium full suspension versus a steel is real 29er freeride hardtail.

https://www.strava.com/activities/88434676/segments/1836134328

again 3rd out of 166 flattest trail ever I was using my dropper.

https://www.strava.com/activities/88434676/segments/1836134302
 

Philpug

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again many people are resistant to change, I will say that flat trails with little pumping opportunity are where dropper will help the least. I bet that story changes in if you went up to copper harbor. With that said on a flat trail with modern geometery I corner faster with a dropper and I suspect anyone who corner properly and is well versed with how to use it would be as well.

These are some strava segments from place I lived by for a summer, I started the summer with no dropper on my Honzo and even was riding my anthem X 29er with no dropper alittle bit as well, but my fastest time there were set on Single speed Honzo with a dropper. There is literally no elevation change and my fastest time with a dropper was 20 seconds faster than my fastest with out a dropper, and when I was with out the dropper my bike was 2lb lighter since it was light aluminium full suspension versus a steel is real 29er freeride hardtail.

https://www.strava.com/activities/88434676/segments/1836134328

again 3rd out of 166 flattest trail ever I was using my dropper.

https://www.strava.com/activities/88434676/segments/1836134302
We rode up in the UP and the riders that I rode with, also had droppers and these were some pretty strong XC riders, they are on a competitive race team too. I also noticed that no one around here was riding flats too everyone ws riding clipless. I think so much of it is terrain based needs. Our 130mm travel bikes were way overkill and if I rode around here, I would be real happy on a nice light hardtail and I very well would go back to clipless..but I do think I would miss my dropper. ;)
 
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Josh Matta

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Copper Harbour is in the UP but i am guessing the UP continues to be more traditional. I also think people's equipment is a catch 22 and because its not capable enough for them(just because is good enough for others is meaningless). I mean if I lived somewhere like Michigan except parts of the UP id probably have my Honzo and 100mm FS for XC racing both with dropper though ;) and my 100mm FS would be a something like a NORCO Revolver because I loathe the old geometry. but I would add a dropper off course...

 

Primoz

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again you being able to do something is meaningless. I have personally set KOM on a 29lb single speed hardtail climbing...does that means its the best tool for the job f no, it just means I was able to make it work on that day
It doesn't mean SS is best tool for job, it just means noone (or at least noone capable of riding normally) is riding that segment, as otherwise it's very unlikely you would set any KOM on SS ;)

yes they are not on XC bike but almost no one is these day
True, but you started the whole thread trying to argue that xc racers are stupid not to use droppers. Check your first post and see who it's about... xc racer riding xc bike... actually xc racer with World Champion title, overall World cup winner and Olympic medalist. Someone who knows a thing or two about riding bike, riding bike the way to make her fastest possible.

you can lose 2 minutes on uphills in a WC race with a dropper.
I didn't say that, but I did say, you can lose 2minutes on uphill when picking best bike for downhill (anything but xc bike). But I would actually dare to bet, that because of dropper you won't gain 4sec on downhills in whole race. Again, most of guys were already riding droppers on XC WC, yet noone is doing it anymore, especially when they race FS, which this season was every single race.
 

Rod9301

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Not sure what the argument is.

Maybe there are some xc racers without drop posts.

But on any kind of decent terrain, any bike, drop posts are pretty nice, and essential if you want to have fun.

Sure there are some old timers set in their ways, but i remember people saying you don't need full suspension.
 

Tom K.

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I've signed off on this thread, but chiming in briefly on a cold, rainy Sunday afternoon to let @Primoz know that I'VE GOT YOUR BACK, BUDDY!
 

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