karlo

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This is an odd one, and not sure if it should be here, in Ski School, or in Hardware. Has anyone tried using textured insoles to enhance balance and learning, either for yourself or for your students? The thought was triggered by a post in Hardware,

I was knocked off the ladder and shattered both of my heels. It changed my life and effects me every day, especially my skiing.
My response was a bad joke, saying he probably doesn't sit back now. (Uncle-A gave me a like, whew). I also noticed this post in Ski School, in response to @Fishbowl,

We were talking to @Dan Egan and his ski clinic program. ... We asked Dan what and how he teaches and he replied with one simple sentence "We teach skiers to ski in balance".
Then, I got thinking about a book I read, Born to Run. Some runners run in their bare feet. The idea is that our soles are highly sensitive, and designed to give us feedback to keep good form, which reduces injury. So, I started looking for pegged insoles, nail-bed insoles, and finally came across textured insoles. Google it. Lots of research. I'm thinking that heightened perception of our feet will help us develop balance more quickly, and promote learning.

Well, I tipped my skis down and took the plunge. Ordered soles from

https://www.shoecue.com/

and from

http://nabosotechnology.com/proprioceptive-insoles/

1. Anyone tried a sole like this.

2. Anyone want to join me this season in trying textured soles?

3. Thank you @Uncle-A

The idea, if new, is hereby in the public domain and free to use.
 
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slowrider

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I see they got the moguls out of storeage.
 
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karlo

karlo

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I'll be interested in hearing your feedback later in the season. Sounds like it's worth a go.

Though, for now, I'm going to stick with my textured outsoles
Wow, where is that?
 
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RuleMiHa

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This is an odd one, and not sure if it should be here, in Ski School, or in Hardware. Has anyone tried using textured insoles to enhance balance and learning, either for yourself or for your students? The thought was triggered by a post in Hardware,



My response was a bad joke, saying he probably doesn't sit back now. (Uncle-A gave me a like, whew). I also noticed this post in Ski School, in response to @Fishbowl,



Then, I got thinking about a book I read, Born to Run. Some runners run in their bare feet. The idea is that our soles are highly sensitive, and designed to give us feedback to keep good form, which reduces injury. So, I started looking for pegged insoles, nail-bed insoles, and finally came across textured insoles. Google it. Lots of research. I'm thinking that heightened perception of our feet will help us develop balance more quickly, and promote learning.

Well, I tipped my skis down and took the plunge. Ordered soles from

https://www.shoecue.com/

and from

http://nabosotechnology.com/proprioceptive-insoles/

1. Anyone tried a sole like this.

2. Anyone want to join me this season in trying textured soles?

3. Thank you @Uncle-A

The idea, if new, is hereby in the public domain and free to use.
I got Naboso's textured yoga mat and I sent my 80 yo mother textured insoles a few months ago. It definitely has some decent studies to back up the theory but I can't say that I've noticed a difference. Also, it doesn't seem to improve overall balance, just improves it when you are on the insoles. I'm interested in hearing others experiences.
 

Pequenita

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Well, in all seriousness, the season that I spent skiing exclusively on a setup that had a ton of vibration resonating at the bottoms of feet, I improved my balance a lot. But it could have been about 4 other factors that resulted in better skiing, too.
 

Jilly

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That would absolutely drive my feet nuts. I have problems with the texture on the inside of ski socks. Very, very sensitive feet. Pedicures are sooo much fun. Hang on to the foot, or I'lll probably kick you!! But if it works for you.....go for it.
 
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karlo

karlo

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One item I found of interest was

"Data suggested that advanced learners were better at harnessing the augmented feedback information from compression and texture to regulate emerging movement patterns compared to novices."

Source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/27155962/
 
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karlo

karlo

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a setup that had a ton of vibration resonating at the bottoms of feet, I improved my balance a lot. But it could have been about 4 other factors that resulted in better skiing, too.

Interesting. What was the setup? What were the other factors, abstaining from substances aside? :)
 

Pequenita

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Interesting. What was the setup? What were the other factors, abstaining from substances aside? :)
I was on my soft backcountry skis that are on the short (even for me) side, with Fritschi frame bindings. They were elevated off the top of the ski enough that it's a noticeable gap. I would notice the vibration on super firm snow, and if there was a stretch of it, the soles of my feet would feel numb from the vibration. It got bad enough that I didn't want to ski firm conditions at speed because it was really uncomfortable underfoot. I'm certain that the vibration was from the binding/ski/conditions combo as I've never experienced that on any other setup, and I'm currently skiing the same ski but with different bindings.

The other factors that may have improved my balance that season: the ski was short, so less room to cheat balance-wise; got more days in than I previously had and skied in general better conditions than I had (I was in the PNW that season, in a La Niña year - the firm snow was early season). But, people did notice a change in my balance.
 

Jamt

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David McFail has written a lot about them on his blog. https://skimoves.me/

When it comes to running and other "natural" sports I'm a hard believer in barefoot technology, but skiing is not natural so there is no intrinsic reason why barefoot should be better in stiff skiing boots that press on your foot.
I did some experimenting last season and I did not notice a big difference, performance wise, between using no insole and a semi-rigid one.
Without the semi-rigid insole the foot splays out more and becomes wider, which gives the effect of widening the foot, which in turn makes the shell press harder against the first and fifth metatarsels of the forefoot. This doesn't exactly feel barefoot, and after a few hours it was too painful. This means that to really try out barefoot soles I would need a pair of boots that are punched out more, and currently that is not within my budget for this experiment.

I do believe that an insole that presses too much on the arch is detrimental for both lateral and fore-aft balance.
 

Don Duran

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Adidas has made slides with nubs for years. My feet hurt after about an hour wearing those slides. So I doubt I would want to wear them for a full day, nor does repeated 2G loads sound even remotely comfortable. But that is just me, others may tolerate that feeling better.
 

T-Square

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My biggest concern with adding a layer under foot is cramming too much into the boot. This could cause pinching of the foot and possible injury. Also it could screw up the work your boot fitter did setting up your boots and footbeds.
 
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karlo

karlo

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I did some experimenting last season and I did not notice a big difference, performance wise, between using no insole and a semi-rigid one.
Were the insoles textured? What make and model? Thanks.

it could screw up the work your boot fitter did setting up your boots and footbeds.
Good point. These have to be very thin and conforming, or I need to confer with fitter. We'll see.
 
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