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Philpug

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Cars are not cheap to crash...especially when technology is integrated in the parts like mirrors, bumper and all of the sensors that are involved. Where airbags used to be the target for theives, now it's mirrors, article HERE. Are Tesla's more exensive to repair? Automotive News says YES.
 

James

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The 20 inch wheels with very low profile tires are a joke in a 4,100lb car travelling on normal roads. Forget driving in the northeast. I hate the 19 inch wheels on a Ford Escape with 235/45 tires. Just no reason for 19's other than it looks good standing still.
Tesla is going to say it's a weight savings.
 

Rod9301

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I think Tesla have built the market for something (the aspirational EV) that others will eventually fully capitalise on. In the meantime they have proven that it is hard for a disrupter to fully enter a business as established as personal vehicles. They don't have a very complex range of models to support or build yet the supply chain seems somewhat flawed and certainly expensive.

I'd guess that they eventually end up leaving the pretty stuff like actual vehicles and the tricky stuff like assembly to a QC to the premium brands and pivot to becomeing battery/tech suppliers plus owners of premium infrstructure. Not that I have any skin in the game like stock or closely follow analysts.
The problem is the Tesla doesn't have any proprietary technology in batteries. All they do is buy cells from Panasonic and package them
 

James

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It’s crazy that the battery packs contain 7-8,000 little batteries.
I thought Tesla 3 was using the Gigafactory cells? Are they paying royalties to Panasonic?

844575F1-FFC0-4B60-9E19-9F287F8F9573.jpeg

Tesla S battery unit. That’s a lot of near AA size batteries.
https://evannex.com/blogs/news/understanding-teslas-lithium-ion-batteries
 

KingGrump

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Low profile tires sucks for driving in the NE. Especially in NYC.
Beside rim and tire damages, ball joints, bushings, roll bar links and strut mounts get a beating also.
In my experience for NYC driving, it is not unusual to see significant damages to the tire belts in under 20K miles. Damages significant enough to warrant replacement.
Usually the tires looks fine on the outside but handles like crap.
 

DanoT

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Low profile tires sucks for driving in the NE. Especially in NYC.
Beside rim and tire damages, ball joints, bushings, roll bar links and strut mounts get a beating also.
In my experience for NYC driving, it is not unusual to see significant damages to the tire belts in under 20K miles. Damages significant enough to warrant replacement.
Usually the tires looks fine on the outside but handles like crap.

I just bought a 2019 Toyota Tacoma. The Sport Trim comes with 17" wheels but the Off Road Trim that I bought comes with 16" wheels. A good indication of what works best for off road rough terrain as well as on road pot holed rough terrain.
 

James

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Low profile tires sucks for driving in the NE. Especially in NYC.
Beside rim and tire damages, ball joints, bushings, roll bar links and strut mounts get a beating also.
In my experience for NYC driving, it is not unusual to see significant damages to the tire belts in under 20K miles. Damages significant enough to warrant replacement.
Usually the tires looks fine on the outside but handles like crap.
Same for sidewall damage from curbing. The chunks that come out of low profile tires are amazing. Yeah, learn to park. Just not happening for some family members. Don't know how they do it without getting a flat, but they do.
 

Seldomski

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Resurrecting this thread... seriously considering a Model 3 long range for my next car. I would use it for commuting in town and weekend day trips. I have some friends who have had one for 1 year and love it - no major issues with theirs. After the test drive of a 2020:

Pros:
-#1 by far is the auto drive. The autonomous driving features are what make me really want this car for driving in my city. This thing will drive itself for about 80% of my daily commute (mostly highway). Stop/go traffic is painless. The car handles it all. Adaptive cruise behaves like a human driver following at a human distance. Tesla demos of full autodrive capability are pretty convincing.
-Handling is quite good. It is a very nimble car for weighing 4200 lbs. The acceleration is phenomenal. This is the long range, not performance model.
-Regen while braking makes me drive safer. I don't mind slowing if that energy is going to be reused and there's no wear on the brakes. Personal quirk for me...
-Windows/cockpit for this thing offer superior driver vision. You can see everything very easily. Way better visibility than the S.

Cons:
-Ride quality is a little rough. You can feel the road. It's similar to a 3 series BMW with big wheels. Fun for me as the driver, maybe not so much for others.
-Interior is basically what you would get if Boeing designed the inside of a car to coach standards. It works, but it feels distinctly cheap and plastic.
-Rear seat thigh support is nonexistent. Probably fine for trips <1 hr for adults. Basically the floor is way closer to your butt in this car than in any normal sedan.
-Lots of weird for the sake of weird features. Like the vent controls for the AC -- there's no vane on the dash to move. You have to use the iPad thing. Turning off the windshield wipers, opening the glovebox, opening the trunk/frunk, setting parking brake, etc are all buried somewhere in the pad interface.
-No spare tire (same story for the model S).
-Autodrive does have some minor freakout moments with the model 3... Freakout meaning it slowed to 50 on the highway for reasons that were unclear... I also drove an S and the autodrive was less twitchy.
-Garage renovation required to add the right charging plug...
-Repairs based on youtube reviews are expensive and slow due to weirdness of Tesla parts and delays in parts orders. Solution is not to break it, but don't always have control over that. Insurance premiums are comparable to our 2014 Audi Q5.

Other oddities/miscellany:
-Exterior styling. Not really my preferred look, but whatever.
-Canopy sun protection. May need an aftermarket mesh or fabric to cover up the sun overhead.
-Tesla doesn't really have model years. They continuously update hardware and software, so evaluating used inventory is difficult. What infotainment, what self driving chip, what suspension, what version of motor, etc etc. Typical used car sites don't have the database fields for describing a Tesla.
-For reason above, I feel like this is one car I actually want new as opposed to 1 or 2 years used. Used cars bought through the Tesla store do not go for much of a discount.
-Recent article that the newest Model 3 has the hardware installed that allows dump of power from the battery back out the charging plug. So maybe soon you can use the pack to store cheap electricity and sell it back to the grid at peak times? No idea how this would work exactly. Maybe it's not even for this, but to allow charging a 3 with another 3?
-3 has the usual interior cubbies and coat hangers like a normal car would. I just point this out since the S is lacking in many basic things I take for granted in a sedan. Like, the S doesn't have coat hangers and there are no pockets in the doors to put things.
-Many other cars in this price point are moving to hybrid drivetrains with inferior autonomous drive features and complex controls. I feel that simply removing the gas engine makes the product simpler overall for city use. In theory, maintenance 1x per 2 years is needed for tire rotation and filter swap. Brakes at 130k+ miles?!
-Buying is a millennial thing. Talking to humans is discouraged. App and software use, encouraged.
 
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laine

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We got a Tesla 3 in March - just after SIP started, primarily as my husband's commute car, as he drives 35 miles (almost all freeway) each way for work. We had actually test-driven it in Feb. We had a BMW i3 that he had be commuting in, but the lease was coming up in May, so we were seeing what else was out there.

We were planning on waiting until April/May to make the purchase, but just after the Bay Area started to shut down, the sales guy called us and said they were trying to get rid of everything on the lot before they were forced to close. There were no discounts. It was just that there was word that they were going to use some of the factories to make ventilators, and they weren't sure how quickly inventory would come back. It wasn't really a pressure call - they had people grabbing them up - so it was up to us.

We decided to move ahead and do it, just because we didn't want to have to wait later down the road. We got the base model (RWD) but paid extra for the self-driving functionality (not cheap - $7k). (We have a Jeep Grand Cherokee for Tahoe.)

Actually, it has surprised us. Yeah, the ride is a little harsh - but I think that's because they're run-flat tires. We had run-flats on another car we bought and swapped them out and the difference was real. But this is a lease, and it's a commute car - and it's good enough as it is. (We have no interest in buying an electric car - the technology changes too quickly.)

When we got the i3 a few years ago, we had actually tried to get a Chevy Bolt, but had multiple terrible experiences at multiple dealers (one lost a car he promised us; another had the car come in late and said that the previous month's incentives were no longer valid and would not honor the price he gave us) and just decided to ban Chevy entirely. Conversely, the customer experience at BMW was fantastic (as far as customer experience goes at a car dealer). Honored the price in the email, didn't push us for extras, no bait and switch. To me, that matters.

The car definitely has its downsides. I'm not the primary driver so sometimes can't remember how to do things on the screen. It takes some getting used to. But for what we bought it for, to last us the next three years, it's an excellent car.

(My husband has started to go back to work part-time this month - about 2-3 days a week and said it's a dream on the commute.)
 
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laine

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This reason is driving me towards this car over any other. You can have a super comfy nice interior, but the stress of traffic is still there in other vehicles.

Yeah, I mean, he's not texting and driving, but it definitely reduces cognitive load quite a bit.
 

James

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Can’t you get smaller rims and higher profile tires?
 

Seldomski

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Can’t you get smaller rims and higher profile tires?

The model 3 I drove at the dealer showroom had the 'standard' tires which are 18". My friends have a year old model with 19" rims. The ride in the older car felt softer, so maybe there is a 'break-in' period for the springs :huh:
 

anders_nor

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I have 20" summer and 20" winter (nokian R3) on my model 3 performance. No issues last 2 winters, new track mode 2 is nice, only got to try it very little on snow sadly for hooning.

wish it was like 2 inches longer for fitting skiiiiis inside, I do have a model Y performance on order, who knows when that will show up.
 

neonorchid

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Tesla becomes most valuable automaker in latest stock rally
Tina Bellon
FILE PHOTO: SpaceX owner and Tesla CEO Elon Musk arrives on the red carpet for the automobile awards "Das Goldene Lenkrad" (The golden steering wheel) given by a German newspaper in Berlin, Germany, November 12, 2019. REUTERS/Hannibal Hanschke/File Photo
(Reuters) - Tesla Inc on Wednesday became the highest-valued automaker as its shares surged to record highs and the electric carmaker’s market capitalization overtook that of former front runner Toyota Motors Corp.

Tesla shares gained 5% in early morning trade to a record of $1,133, boosting the company’s market cap to $209.47 billion - roughly $6 billion more than Toyota is currently valued by investors.

Tesla is now worth more than triple the combined value of U.S. automakers General Motors Co and Ford Motor Co.
 

DanoT

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Tesla becomes most valuable automaker in latest stock rally
Tina Bellon
FILE PHOTO: SpaceX owner and Tesla CEO Elon Musk arrives on the red carpet for the automobile awards "Das Goldene Lenkrad" (The golden steering wheel) given by a German newspaper in Berlin, Germany, November 12, 2019. REUTERS/Hannibal Hanschke/File Photo
(Reuters) - Tesla Inc on Wednesday became the highest-valued automaker as its shares surged to record highs and the electric carmaker’s market capitalization overtook that of former front runner Toyota Motors Corp.

Tesla shares gained 5% in early morning trade to a record of $1,133, boosting the company’s market cap to $209.47 billion - roughly $6 billion more than Toyota is currently valued by investors.

Tesla is now worth more than triple the combined value of U.S. automakers General Motors Co and Ford Motor Co.

Never mind the stock price and what investors think of the EV future, is Tesla making a profit per car manufactured?

The big problem that I have with EVs is, to quote Elon Musk, "The batteries suck". IMO unless there is a major battery tech breakthrough, by 2030 we will be lucky to see 25% of the cars on the road as EVs.
 

Seldomski

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-Recent article that the newest Model 3 has the hardware installed that allows dump of power from the battery back out the charging plug. So maybe soon you can use the pack to store cheap electricity and sell it back to the grid at peak times? No idea how this would work exactly. Maybe it's not even for this, but to allow charging a 3 with another 3?

This turned out to be false. The author of the article misread the schematic.
 

DanoT

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This turned out to be false. The author of the article misread the schematic.
When they get to the point where they can mount solar panels on a car's roof and then drive around all day and night or at the very least, a decent portion of the battery charging power is solar, then they got something. Until then, I am more of a hybrid fan.
 
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