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crgildart

Gravity Slave
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The Bull City

Seldomski

All words are made up
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'mericuh
When they get to the point where they can mount solar panels on a car's roof and then drive around all day and night or at the very least, a decent portion of the battery charging power is solar, then they got something. Until then, I am more of a hybrid fan.

Keep dreaming on that one. At highway speeds on a flat road, the car uses roughly 18kW. Solar irradiance is roughly 1kW per square meter.
 

crgildart

Gravity Slave
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Keep dreaming on that one. At highway speeds on a flat road, the car uses roughly 18kW. Solar irradiance is roughly 1kW per square meter.
Solar panel roads as charging pads seems feasible though..
 

François Pugh

Skiing the powder
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In other news...

I don't comprehend how they can be last, or even below the middle.
Dodge tied for 1st! There's a joke. I guess it's "Initial" quality, not what happens after you used the vehicle for a while and the parts wear out prematurely.
 

skibob

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Santa Rosa Fire Belt
The political undertext:

Tesla has snubbed JD Power. In the states that don't require automakers to provide data to the public (15) Tesla does not provide it to JD POwer. Therefore, their data is incomplete.

So, my read is, slap Tesla with a bad rating so that they will play ball to improve it. I also think they've grossly misread Musk's stubbornness.
 

raytseng

Making fresh tracks
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I think most of the theorists are pointing out the biggest skew is likely due to selection bias rather than a big conspiriacy of fake numbers.

The people who buy a dodge know theyre buying a dodge so their expectations on quality are lower. The people who buy a tesla are nitpicky and fastidious so have higher standards.
I will point out n the prev. years the commentary used selection bias to explain the exact opposite theory though that Tesla early adopters were fanboys and were ranking the car as good despite having real flaws. So which is it? Can you have it both ways?

This years subtext is implying that the honeymoon is over, and there is a double skew swinging the numbers, first years were overly high, current years are overly low. I'm not sure you can have it both ways. Maybe it is saying you these type of survey results are too fickle and too far open to human interpretation (and potentially manipulation through marketing).
Overall though I think the survey is legit but as a subjective metric that layers in human emotions and sentiment. The takeaway is: Is an average Tesla buyer happy with the quality of their Tesla? Is average Dodge buyer happy with the quality of their Dodge? Regardless of the subjective skew, if you aren't managing expectations vs what you're delivering, goodwill will only last so long and the numbers will catch up.

Beyond the jdpower ranking, I also don't doubt those real stories of many Tesla being delivered with flaws, and some serious. Especially with such high focus to produce volume instead of quality. Since there is a backlog and literally no shortage of demand at this time, there is no shortterm motivation to pursue quality.
Consumer reports which is the bastion of practically and soulless applicance vehicles, dropped Tesla rankings a long time ago due to quality and I don't think they are swayed as much by emotions.
The recent stories on the Y and people refusing delivery show the jd power stats is not totally bogus.
 
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skibob

Skiing the powder
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Santa Rosa Fire Belt
I think most of the theorists are pointing out the biggest skew is likely due to selection bias rather than a big conspiriacy of fake numbers.

The people who buy a dodge know theyre buying a dodge so their expectations on quality are lower. The people who buy a tesla are nitpicky and fastidious so have higher standards.
I will point out n the prev. years the commentary used selection bias to explain the exact opposite theory though that Tesla early adopters were fanboys and were ranking the car as good despite having real flaws. So which is it? Can you have it both ways?

This years subtext is implying that the honeymoon is over, and there is a double skew swinging the numbers, first years were overly high, current years are overly low. I'm not sure you can have it both ways. Maybe it is saying you these type of survey results are too fickle and too far open to human interpretation (and potentially manipulation through marketing).
Overall though I think the survey is legit but as a subjective metric that layers in human emotions and sentiment. The takeaway is: Is an average Tesla buyer happy with the quality of their Tesla? Is average Dodge buyer happy with the quality of their Dodge? Regardless of the subjective skew, if you aren't managing expectations vs what you're delivering, goodwill will only last so long and the numbers will catch up.

Beyond the jdpower ranking, I also don't doubt those real stories of many Tesla being delivered with flaws, and some serious. Especially with such high focus to produce volume instead of quality. Since there is a backlog and literally no shortage of demand at this time, there is no shortterm motivation to pursue quality.
Consumer reports which is the bastion of practically and soulless applicance vehicles, dropped Tesla rankings a long time ago due to quality and I don't think they are swayed as much by emotions.
The recent stories on the Y and people refusing delivery show the jd power stats is not totally bogus.
Definitely agree and appreciate the nuance. Being here in the bay area (like you) I see a lot of them and know a lot of Tesla owners (and nearly bought a 3 myself). There are some quality issues, especially recently. But they are nowhere near as bad as JD Power makes them out to be.

I don't think JDP has literally made up data. Far from it. But in the past they have refused to include Tesla due to the lack of data from 15 markets. I think the decision to include them though, when the data showed at by far its poorest, can't be anything other than strategic.

Now, the thing that jumps out at me about quality in EVs: Its all about fit and finish and peripheral systems. Its never about the drivetrain. Aside from some high profile outliers like battery fires (which, scary as they are, seem overblown). That doesn't excuse it. But I'd rather have trouble with my door panel than my transmission.
 

raytseng

Making fresh tracks
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SF Bay Area
Some of those tesla Y videos on YouTube are pretty damning though, and even if it's cosmetic, something like that would sit with me worse as since a cosmetic defect possibly won't be fixed or considered ok and you just have to live with it or return (and possibly get another flawed vehicle)
At least if something like the powertrain dies, its a fluke, and super obvious thats not right and they can make it right under warranty.
Additionally, if they're picking up out of Fremont to replant in Austin, that potentially is restarting the growing pains again in a new facility.
If you compare to a toyota hybrid or even plugin you wouldnt expect this quality either on the cosmetic or mechanic fronts.
(ICE is so evolved through competition, even the cheap brands aren't that bad currently on both mechanically and cosmetically).
 
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