Tell Us About Your Taos Ski Week

[James]

If I can say that it is comparable to XYZ where we have skied before, that can grease the wheels.

It's a special place. Little different than vast Whistler. You almost become part of the place, like family if you do the ski week. But you know that if you've been there before.
Comparable to Aspen Highlands I suppose.
What are you looking for to make it appealing? We could probably spin it.

 

[Tony S]

For those of us that don't get out west often how would you rate the difficulty of the trails that you skied with your group during ski week compared to some new england trails? I understand they have long steep chutes etc but it sounds like your group took it a little easier.

Keeping an open mind is key. For the lesson period, just focus on what the instructor is up to. Don't sweat the terrain. Leave that problem up to your coach.

Then for your free skiing bring your embryonic learnings to whatever terrain you want - super easy to super hard or anything in between. See if they work. Sometimes they won't. Sometimes they will. Often a really useful skill can be performed only on easy terrain when you're first absorbing it. That's okay; you're exploring. Other times you may recognize the benefit of something more when you're really challenged, such as the patented Taos lazy bump turn.

Anyway, if you leave as much ego at home as possible and are receptive to what comes along, you will really like Taos. It's a fun adventure. If you have something to prove, prepare to be grumpy.

 

[surfsnowgirl]

Doing one of these is on my future radar. Maybe in a season or two

 

[Paul Shifflet]

Never skied Hunter. Praise the Lord.
The green runs around the Seattle area at Sun Valley are probably some of the most intimidating green runs I've ever skied in North America. They are the real deal.

BTW, I don't paid much attention to the rating of a trail when I ski. I ski for enjoyment rather than bragging rights.

All that means is that Sun Valley didn't have enough gentle terrain, so for marketing they labeled some blues as green to be able to attract that large clientele. It's sad they put their financial interests in front of safety, because it puts beginner skiers at risk when they get in over their head on terrain that is labeled for beginners. Though, great packed powder out west on a steeper pitch is cake compared to some of the icy days in the east, so it's probably ok to have steeper pitches for greens on most days there and still be comparable to a place like Hunter. I remember many years ago struggling on some rock hard icy moguls at Hunter which I've never seen anywhere out west despite skiing there for decades. I also remember my family, when my youngest was 7, sticking to greens and blues in the east on some days, but then skiing blacks and double blacks out west in the same year because of the conditions.

 

[markojp]

Hmmmm. Getting close to page 5. Paul, it isn't about marketing. Out east and in the midwest, I dare say it is. Sun Valley's been around forever. The easier terrain is on dollar mtn. Most first timers there are surprised because it's steeper than expected... or marketed. I was. There's nothing extreme, but it's long and sustained making for great mileage days. All trail ratings everywhere are relative to that particular resort. And this notion there isn't ice.... the west is big. It also includes the far west and PNW. There is ice. Ask anyone who skied at Alpental this past January.

 

[Paul Shifflet]

Hmmmm. Getting close to page 5. Paul, it isn't about marketing. Out east and in the midwest, I dare say it is. Sun Valley's been around forever. The easier terrain is on dollar mtn. Most first timers there are surprised because it's steeper than expected... or marketed. I was. There's nothing extreme, but it's long and sustained making for great mileage days. All trail ratings everywhere are relative to that particular resort. And this notion there isn't ice.... the west is big. It also includes the far west and PNW. There is ice. Ask anyone who skied at Alpental this past January.

Hahahah. "The west is big" Thanks for that insight Markojp. Nope, ice in the Pacific doesn't come close to New York. How many days have you skied in the east around Hunter's latitude? I've done entire seasons in the Pacific, and I've done entire seasons in the East. An average day of ice in lower New York is a rare event in the Pacific, and even rarer in the Rockies. An extreme day of ice in New York is non-existent anywhere out west. Try skiing every week in lower New York or Pennsylvania and every week in Washington State, then come back to talk to me. A few trips to Killington don't count for understanding the differences between the east and the west, because you can have sweet days in the east, and the conditions are much worse further south. Ask anyone that's skied entire seasons in all these places, and you'll get the same answer.

Ski resorts around Hunter are an interesting contribution to the world of skiing. Sure the resort acreage is small, but there are many resorts scattered all over the area with lots of total lift capacity. There are ~53 ski resorts in Pennsylvania and New York combined while there are ~17 in Washington state. There's a big skiing population, because there are many huge cities nearby, but it's not a place that anyone would travel to ski. So, there's lots of man-hours of skiing in that region, but people that haven't lived there aren't familiar with it. So, you think you know, but you don't, and you'll never know, because there's no reason for you to go there, because on average the conditions are heinous, and the acreage at any single resort is small.

The snow is predominantly man made which adds to the bad conditions. You may think that PNW snow is wet compared to Colorado, but it's nothing compared to the water content in manmade snow made at temperatures and humidity seen at the lower latitudes. Also at the lower latitudes it often gets warm and then refreezes. So, on any given day below freezing with all that water content, it's just a block of ice unless they can run the guns and coat the slopes overnight. In the past, not so much, these days I think many places do a better job, though not if they've run out of snow making budget, water, or the humidity isn't cooperating……. Generally with the much denser traffic per slope, even if they can coat it, the snow is pushed off immediately. I tend to ski a narrow corridor down the edge where the fresh manmade snow has gathered, but it's still crap compared to PNW, and not everyone is comfortable doing that. Moguls are a whole separate story. The good thing is that there's a resort within an hour of just about anyone's house, so that you can ski easily every week. It's a good experience for kids to learn, and even though the mountains are much smaller, they seem to be well prepared for skiing out west. After skiing a few seasons every week in the east at tiny resorts, my kids were plenty prepared for blacks and double blacks out west, largely because of the much nicer conditions there.

 

[Wilhelmson]

because on average the conditions are heinous

Well my intention wasn't to start east verse west verse pnw, but this line was worth it.

 

[Tony S]

 

[Jimski]

Yikes, I just saw this thread. Yes, I'm sometimes a bit slow on the uptake....

Two months ago I posted my brief take on the Taos Ski Week. But I put it in dbostedo's Taos trip report, where it sticks out like a sore thumb. Could one of the Mods move my post from there to here?

Thanks!

 

[James]

Trail ratings can definitely be about marketing. We had a few trails open as "green" only to be changed because it was such a joke. They really wanted a green trail from the top.
That's why I think there should be a standard for a beginner rated trail with maximum pitch. You can't have a short steep pitch on it either. Probably limit double fall lines. Once past beginner, relative trail rating is ok.

 

[markojp]

Hahahah. "The west is big" Thanks for that insight Markojp. Nope, ice in the Pacific doesn't come close to New York. How many days have you skied in the east around Hunter's latitude? I've done entire seasons in the Pacific, and I've done entire seasons in the East. An average day of ice in lower New York is a rare event in the Pacific, and even rarer in the Rockies. An extreme day of ice in New York is non-existent anywhere out west. Try skiing every week in lower New York or Pennsylvania and every week in Washington State, then come back to talk to me. A few trips to Killington don't count for understanding the differences between the east and the west, because you can have sweet days in the east, and the conditions are much worse further south. Ask anyone that's skied entire seasons in all these places, and you'll get the same answer.

Ski resorts around Hunter are an interesting contribution to the world of skiing. Sure the resort acreage is small, but there are many resorts scattered all over the area with lots of total lift capacity. There are ~53 ski resorts in Pennsylvania and New York combined while there are ~17 in Washington state. There's a big skiing population, because there are many huge cities nearby, but it's not a place that anyone would travel to ski. So, there's lots of man-hours of skiing in that region, but people that haven't lived there aren't familiar with it. So, you think you know, but you don't, and you'll never know, because there's no reason for you to go there, because on average the conditions are heinous, and the acreage at any single resort is small.

The snow is predominantly man made which adds to the bad conditions. You may think that PNW snow is wet compared to Colorado, but it's nothing compared to the water content in manmade snow made at temperatures and humidity seen at the lower latitudes. Also at the lower latitudes it often gets warm and then refreezes. So, on any given day below freezing with all that water content, it's just a block of ice unless they can run the guns and coat the slopes overnight. In the past, not so much, these days I think many places do a better job, though not if they've run out of snow making budget, water, or the humidity isn't cooperating……. Generally with the much denser traffic per slope, even if they can coat it, the snow is pushed off immediately. I tend to ski a narrow corridor down the edge where the fresh manmade snow has gathered, but it's still crap compared to PNW, and not everyone is comfortable doing that. Moguls are a whole separate story. The good thing is that there's a resort within an hour of just about anyone's house, so that you can ski easily every week. It's a good experience for kids to learn, and even though the mountains are much smaller, they seem to be well prepared for skiing out west. After skiing a few seasons every week in the east at tiny resorts, my kids were plenty prepared for blacks and double blacks out west, largely because of the much nicer conditions there.

I didn't grow up in the west.

 

[Mike King]

I've never skied Taos, but I've skied Whistler a bunch. It has some of the steepest terrain I've skied and some of the most varied terrain as well. Everything from steep bowls to steep chutes to mandatory airs into steep couloirs to steep trees to steep big bumps to hard as a rock stuff to soft to powder. It is a real mountain -- the fun factor has a lot to do with the crowds, the visibility, and the snow. I'd be surprised to find something at Taos that you couldn't find at WB -- there is more terrain at WB than at Snowbird, Jackson, and Aspen Highlands combined.

It also has some very unique features that really assist learning to ski steeps. The blowhole off of the Blackcomb glacier is a natural quarter pipe that is 50 degree on some of its aspect with only about 15-20 feet to the belly of the run. It's perfect for learning to release the ski in steep terrain -- little consequence, so you can really work on steeps technique without crux skiing. For crux skiing, it has more than enough for virtually anyone.

Just an amazing mountain. Too bad the snow quality can be so variable, and the crowds so large.

Mike

 

[James]

Could one of the Mods move my post from there to here?

Just go and find your other post, report it, and include a link to this thread. Otherwise, someone else does that as a volunteer.

 

[KingGrump]

Hahahah. "The west is big" Thanks for that insight Markojp. Nope, ice in the Pacific doesn't come close to New York. How many days have you skied in the east around Hunter's latitude? I've done entire seasons in the Pacific, and I've done entire seasons in the East. An average day of ice in lower New York is a rare event in the Pacific, and even rarer in the Rockies. An extreme day of ice in New York is non-existent anywhere out west. Try skiing every week in lower New York or Pennsylvania and every week in Washington State, then come back to talk to me. A few trips to Killington don't count for understanding the differences between the east and the west, because you can have sweet days in the east, and the conditions are much worse further south. Ask anyone that's skied entire seasons in all these places, and you'll get the same answer.

Ski resorts around Hunter are an interesting contribution to the world of skiing. Sure the resort acreage is small, but there are many resorts scattered all over the area with lots of total lift capacity. There are ~53 ski resorts in Pennsylvania and New York combined while there are ~17 in Washington state. There's a big skiing population, because there are many huge cities nearby, but it's not a place that anyone would travel to ski. So, there's lots of man-hours of skiing in that region, but people that haven't lived there aren't familiar with it. So, you think you know, but you don't, and you'll never know, because there's no reason for you to go there, because on average the conditions are heinous, and the acreage at any single resort is small.

The snow is predominantly man made which adds to the bad conditions. You may think that PNW snow is wet compared to Colorado, but it's nothing compared to the water content in manmade snow made at temperatures and humidity seen at the lower latitudes. Also at the lower latitudes it often gets warm and then refreezes. So, on any given day below freezing with all that water content, it's just a block of ice unless they can run the guns and coat the slopes overnight. In the past, not so much, these days I think many places do a better job, though not if they've run out of snow making budget, water, or the humidity isn't cooperating……. Generally with the much denser traffic per slope, even if they can coat it, the snow is pushed off immediately. I tend to ski a narrow corridor down the edge where the fresh manmade snow has gathered, but it's still crap compared to PNW, and not everyone is comfortable doing that. Moguls are a whole separate story. The good thing is that there's a resort within an hour of just about anyone's house, so that you can ski easily every week. It's a good experience for kids to learn, and even though the mountains are much smaller, they seem to be well prepared for skiing out west. After skiing a few seasons every week in the east at tiny resorts, my kids were plenty prepared for blacks and double blacks out west, largely because of the much nicer conditions there.

Gee, boys and girls, I closed my computer for a moving day here at Mammoth and come back to a full on anatomy comparison session. This is on top of a horrific day of skiing 15” of fresh. The boys here keep calling it “powder”. I keep telling them, this is not powder, this is wind packed crud. Had to take out my cambered ski to keep the fillings in my mouth. I tell ya, them boys will wet their pants if they ever get to ski the Bird during a dump.

Oh, where were we?

Paul, I owe you a personal thank you for taking one for the team and skied all the crappy ice in NY/PA. So I don’t have to. Thank you. I’ll buy you a beer if our paths ever cross in the future. You’ll have to come to SVT in December though. You have convinced me, I ain’t ever skiing that scary crappy ice you described in NY/PA. You are a much better man than I. I tell you the reason I ski SVT in December is to remind myself I reallllllly should head out west come January.

Wait, maybe we can get together at Snowshoe. That’s in PA, right? Snowshoe is on the Ikon pass. It must be good, right? I am thinking a week at Snowshoe next season. That would be perfect. I’ll get Mamie working on that right away. Can’t wait. Will be the high light of next season.

IIRC, the day I skied the three green trails off Seattle Ridge in 2016, I was on a well tuned pair of FIS SL. Yeah, it was ice. May not be the crappy kind found in NY/PA. But it was ice. Probably a better class of ice Sun Valley put out for dirt bags like me.

I have no issues with ice. Skied SVT since the '70's. Often times there are more vile form of snow out there. There are times at Crystal where I wished for a beefier ski than my Mantra. That super crappy crud I ran into at Crystal in 2016 makes the crud at Mammoth today feel like Utah gold.

For those of us that don't get out west often how would you rate the difficulty of the trails that you skied with your group during ski week compared to some new england trails? I understand they have long steep chutes etc but it sounds like your group took it a little easier.

Back to the post that restarted this thread.

Where a ski week group skis usually depends on the ability of the lowest common denominator in the group. Deaths and injuries require lots of paper work on the part of the instructor. Not to mention the missed tips come Friday.

Full disclosure: I have been in groups where we hike the ridge multiple times during the morning. The highest was sixteen time in a six days morning ski week. YMMV.

 

[dbostedo]

Yikes, I just saw this thread. Yes, I'm sometimes a bit slow on the uptake....

Two months ago I posted my brief take on the Taos Ski Week. But I put it in dbostedo's Taos trip report, where it sticks out like a sore thumb. Could one of the Mods move my post from there to here?

Thanks!

Just go and find your other post, report it, and include a link to this thread. Otherwise, someone else does that as a volunteer.

Done.

 

[ADKmel]

I've pretty much gotten to the point where I ignore all statements about terrain unless I've skied with the person making them (and thus know how to calibrate her remarks).

LOL try to keep up with her..

 

[Tony S]

LOL try to keep up with her.

No kidding! Kind of the story of my life.

 

[Tony S]

No kidding! Kind of the story of my life.

P.S. I never even found you at Taos, let alone kept up.

 

[surfsnowgirl]

I've very much looking forward to checking out one of these skis weeks. I think it will be an absolute blast.

 

[Paul Shifflet]

Paul, I owe you a personal thank you for taking one for the team and skied all the crappy ice in NY/PA. So I don’t have to. Thank you. I’ll buy you a beer if our paths ever cross in the future. You’ll have to come to SVT in December though. You have convinced me, I ain’t ever skiing that scary crappy ice you described in NY/PA. You are a much better man than I.

It's funny you should bring up Snowshoe. I skied there and have a story to tell. It was a very icy day. There's a blue visible from the lift, I believe called Ballhooter. From the lift I could see one after another wipe out on the ice and go sliding to the bottom. I was thinking this is a disaster waiting to happen. Then, sure enough, a young girl about 9 years old wipes out and flies into the woods. I got off the lift and skied down to see if she's alright. There were several adult men around her trying to pull her out, but they were struggling. They didn't have their skis on, and none of them could reliably stand on the ice with their boots, nor sit down. They'd immediately slide down to a tree. All they could do was hold on to trees. I skied over to them and said, "Put her skis on her, and I'll get her down." I skied right next to her and used my skis as a block to keep her skis from sliding down. They got her onto her skis, then I wrapped my arm around her waist and we skidded down the hill sideways until we got to the bottom using my skis to stop her skis. She could not keep her skis from accelerating even when she was sideways to the hill. I had just done it quite a bit with my daughter, so felt pretty comfortable with that strategy. If there was ever a green with that pitch that was sustained with that ice out west, they would close the slope, because it would be deadly. In decades of skiing out there, I've never seen it.

On Cupp run, a black diamond, I was riding up the lift, and about in the middle I heard someone yelling for help. At the top of the lift, some of us went over to a ski patroller, and said that we heard someone yelling for help. He said they already skied the entire slope and couldn't find anyone. So, I skied down to where I heard someone yelling and heard nothing. Then I pulled off my helmet and barely heard it. I looked in that direction and saw a ski tip waiving in the air about 30 feet off the trail. I took off my skis and walked over there across nothing but sharp rocks, and there was an older fellow down in a five foot ditch. I said, "Are you alright?" He said, "I broke both my legs." Some more people arrived, and then we waived down a ski patrol guy. I looped the trail several times to check in and see if they needed help, because it was not going to be an easy job to get that guy out of the ditch. It took about 4 loops for 5-6 ski patrol to pull him out. I remember hearing him screaming as they put him on the stretcher. I think often of that guy and how hard his trip home must have been.

So, King Grump, you can joke about scary ice, but I don't think that guy with two broken legs thinks it's very funny. You're making this into being about who's better or what's better, and that's not what this is about. I merely like to set the record straight regarding what is what. In my opinion, out west is way better. There's no doubt about it. I know people that ski the PA area and love it, and I know people that refuse to ski there and will only ski out west, because of the conditions. And then there are some that just go up for the occasional natural snowfall. I'm one of those skiers that like to ski rain or shine, and it is what it is. The truth is that greens, blues, and blacks east and west are pretty similar with the exception of typically more sustained pitches out west and often much harsher conditions in the east. If for some reason that truth bruises egos, then that's just sad.