Tecnica Mach 1 MV 130 and a greater discussion on boot fore and aft flex.

[Josh Matta]

So long story short I broke my 6 year old boots 25.5 Kr2 pro, and would have had a pair of those for 2 weeks, so I needed something to get on my feet.

This was the only thing in the shop that was in my size and was going to fit my foot and was thought to not be a complete a noodle. Benny at Inner boot works did a great job punching the shell to fit my 110mm wide 25.5 foot. The shell length is basically spot but the 6th toe and navicular needed to punched out. my alignment is spot on due to Cantology plates.

Build quality and buckle quality is awesome. I wish Dalbello made their Kr2 buckles this nice. I wanted to like their fancy power strap but it turned out to be annoying to get the right tightness, and hard to loosen for lift rides. I switched out to a WC booster and it made the boot slightly stiffer for and aft.

The Liner ugh.....IMO almost no boot liners come up high enough, I molded a 26.5 power wrap to this boot and comfort and control ability went up quite a bit. I sometimes wonder why ski boot manufactors that do not do a lace up, or intuition style liner do not just give you an option for a boot with no liner? the vast majority of boot liners out there are garbage.

How it skis.....I so wanted to like it. The fit is much more roomy and more comfortable than my sometimes constrictive and down right painful on someday punched Kr2s but the forward flex is just to soft. On a good groom it works on ok a ski that like to be driven from the center, but on say my Monster 83 they basically become impossible to ski that as you press into the tongue it basically does nothing to pressure the tip, When you press into the tongue you are basically just flexing the boot, no giving any tip pressure. Going though broken snow is slightly scary as I fight to stay balanced. Its much easier to stay in balance on a stiffer boot in broken snow. bumps and powder are the same. Its is hard to control for and aft balance in bumps on powder because the boot just flexes it does not transmit anything to snow.

Lateral power transmission is good, but with out the for and aft balance its hard to exploit the good lateral transmission.

Getting it off and on is WAY harders more painful than a Kr2. I still do not get non plug over lap boots, they seem pointless, no better performance with much harder entry and exit.

Skiing this boot makes me question why ski boots are so soft. This is suppose to be a top of the line expert level boot, and yet I can squash it into submission with no effort at all. Soft boots actually make skiing harder for me, and its begs the question how many people are being held back by their boots not being able to take their inputs?

While I am glad I have a near bucket boot that is comfortable to wear even on hot magic carpet days, the skiing performance IMO isnt great mostly due to a forward flex that is to soft. I just have to wonder how others manage in this boot.

 

[CalG]

Perhaps you could purchase two common bathroom scales. Set yourself up in boots and skis with one scale forward and one aft of your center.

Make comments quantitative instead of qualitative (i.e. subjective)

Rants such as "why are boots not stiffer" can not lead to constructive comment.

 

[Josh Matta]

I mean that as general statement. not just these boots but almost all boots.

Also you bathroom scaled idea is flawed. In static position not going down ski, I am certain there would be no difference in how much the scale at the tip of the ski would weigh compared between these(mach 1), my Kr2s, my Maestrales, and my yet to get here DRS 170 flex. on snow though as the ski and boot pushes into you the difference is far beyond subjective but also impossible objectively to measure, but if you figure out how to measure it, I am all ears.

I actually know of way to measure boot flex but the scale required to do is cost prohibitive. I need one of these

https://www.grainger.com/product/3N...vice^c-plaid^82129008237-sku^3NZH5-adType^PLA

that can measure into the 1000lb of pound force range. Take lever jammed into the boot and pull right above the cuff forward and measure the force to get it to deform. If someone knows of something I would be willing to start testing any ski boot to see what the true flex is.

 

[Rod9301]

Perhaps you could purchase two common bathroom scales. Set yourself up in boots and skis with one scale forward and one aft of your center.

Make comments quantitative instead of qualitative (i.e. subjective)

Rants such as "why are boots not stiffer" can not lead to constructive comment.

May not be constructive, but it's a real issue, similar I'm too the trend for light skis with low turning radius.

 

[Brian Finch]

2 thoughts-

My experience in the LV version was the exact same as you described. Vague & resulted in me doing a lot of inclination to get the skis to turn. It can be kinda unsettling to feel the clog flex under your foot.

Second, I actually like the new strap a lot, happy to take em off your hands!

 

[Ken_R]

@Josh Matta Man that suxs. The 4 buckle boots are indeed a PITA to get in them EXCEPT if you warm them up then they are easy as pie. I really like my Lange RS130, they are not super stiff but feel solid and stable at high speeds with the M 88's. I only wish the cuff was a bit taller. It is in the Hawx which I love. The trend in boots is lighter and lighter except for the plug boots obviously. Agree with what you said that top end boots should come with an option to buy without the liner (at a reduced cost). Some are indeed junk but they have gotten a lot better over the years.

 

[Superbman]

Josh, I replaced my KR2 ID Fusions (which I loved) with last years Dalbello Lupo 130 SP. I've always like the Cabrio design and the custom designed intuition wrap line is a godsend to my skinny calves. But, I have felt like I can't get good forward pressure on this boot (you can't change the forward lean on the lupo's ). I thought about trying a boot like the Mach 1 LV, but you're description of the lack of forward pressure sound like what I'm looking to avoid. I may switch to the new Krypton pro w/ no hike mode and an adjustable forward lean. How much lean do you have in your Kryptons?

 

[Tricia]

Josh, I replaced my KR2 ID Fusions (which I loved) with last years Dalbello Lupo 130 SP. I've always like the Cabrio design and the custom designed intuition wrap line is a godsend to my skinny calves. But, I have felt like I can't get good forward pressure on this boot (you can't change the forward lean on the lupo's ). I thought about trying a boot like the Mach 1 LV, but you're description of the lack of forward pressure sound like what I'm looking to avoid. I may switch to the new Krypton pro w/ no hike mode and an adjustable forward lean. How much lean do you have in your Kryptons?

There are a lot of factors that a bootfitter will look into to decide what kind of forward lean is a good balance for a skier.
Some of what Josh is describing in this thread pertains to him and his physiology and may not be the same result for another skier.

That being said, you may enjoy a similar set up as what works for Josh.

 

[CalG]

Josh, I replaced my KR2 ID Fusions (which I loved) with last years Dalbello Lupo 130 SP. I've always like the Cabrio design and the custom designed intuition wrap line is a godsend to my skinny calves. But, I have felt like I can't get good forward pressure on this boot (you can't change the forward lean on the lupo's ). I thought about trying a boot like the Mach 1 LV, but you're description of the lack of forward pressure sound like what I'm looking to avoid. I may switch to the new Krypton pro w/ no hike mode and an adjustable forward lean. How much lean do you have in your Kryptons?

I've placed "shims" in the backs of my Lupo shafts to facilitate fwd lean. It's one way. I have skinny lower legs, so even the Intuition overlaps are getting sloppy with use.

 

[Ken_R]

I think its time. We need a boot flex measuring machine.

 

[DonC]

This thread among others has me thinking that my current hard snow ski and boots are not well matched. On a Monster 88 as the terrain gets steeper I feel like I'm not getting enough input into the tip of the ski and to compensate I pressure downward through the foot which ends up causing cramping and pain.

 

[Josh Matta]

Josh, I replaced my KR2 ID Fusions (which I loved) with last years Dalbello Lupo 130 SP. I've always like the Cabrio design and the custom designed intuition wrap line is a godsend to my skinny calves. But, I have felt like I can't get good forward pressure on this boot (you can't change the forward lean on the lupo's ). I thought about trying a boot like the Mach 1 LV, but you're description of the lack of forward pressure sound like what I'm looking to avoid. I may switch to the new Krypton pro w/ no hike mode and an adjustable forward lean. How much lean do you have in your Kryptons?

I run the most upright forward lean with, 2mm of external heel lift. if its really icey I go to the middle forward lean chip.

IMO boots shouldnt flex, your lower legs should just come out of the shaft in the correct position.

 

[Rod9301]

This thread among others has me thinking that my current hard snow ski and boots are not well matched. On a Monster 88 as the terrain gets steeper I feel like I'm not getting enough input into the tip of the ski and to compensate I pressure downward through the foot which ends up causing cramping and pain.

Are you trying to pull the feet back strongly at transition?

 

[DonC]

Are you trying to pull the feet back strongly at transition?

Since I'm not entirely sure what that movement feels like and I have no video of me skiing, I'll have to say probably not.

 

[James]

IMO boots shouldnt flex, your lower legs should just come out of the shaft in the correct position.

I may agree. The problem is getting that spot right. Not just fore aft but side to side. Almost everyboot I've had, as you tighten the cuff buckles, pulls the leg out of position. If you get it "tight" then the leg is locked up which sucks for balance and control. Drives me crazy. So I ski them loose. If they were perfectly set up I could see it working. @Bob Barnes and @cgeib agree with the "concrete boot" theory.

Currently usually skiing with the top buckle extremely loose. Hell one fell off and I skied for two weekends without. (Fischer frankenboot, basically no flex if tight and it's below 30deg.) Though it's soft snow, and Okemo..

McPhail thinks there should be about 15 deg of movement before resistance from the boot cuff. Could be a little space or squish of the liner. That to activate the stretch reflex which protects the knee and is essential for good balance.

 

[Rod9301]

Since I'm not entirely sure what that movement feels like and I have no video of me skiing, I'll have to say probably not.

Use your hamstrings to pull both feet back at transition between turns, then keep pulling the inside foot back thru the turn.

This is the method all racers use to stay forward, it to get back forward if in the back seat.

 

[Choucas]

I was skiing yesterday and thinking about how perfectly my alpine gear setup (which includes the aforementioned and now greatly downgraded Tecnica Mach 1 MV's) was working. Super comfortable, warmer than any boot I've owned, easy on and easy off, and a nice medium flex that doesn't give me any weird sensations or unexpected ski reactions when I press into the tongue. I don't know anything about moving my feet backwards with my hamstrings while in the middle of a turn (do people actually think about that while they're skiing down the hill?) and how my boots have anything to do with that. Sounds like a recipe for falling on my face. I do know that I'm able to stay balanced through a turn of any radius and any speed. Maybe I'm missing something. I'm guessing that we all stand and pressure our skis a bit differently and hence will have different reactions to the performance of a given boot. I don't think that any great service is being done by beating up on a particular product on this forum because of ones personal preferences. When I see people coming out with strong negative comments on products, I tend to think that they have an ax to grind and, as a result, I place zero credibility in anything they say.

 

[AmyPJ]

I don't think Josh has an ax to grid at all, he just doesn't care for these boots.
I do agree that we all ski differently, and have different anatomies that require different things.
FWIW, my better half RIPS in his new Mach 1s, and loves them after coming out of another Tecnica. Prior to that, he skied in Langes. Yes, he's an L3 with 30 years experience, and yes, he's in his late 50s.

The Mach 1 is a very popular boot with the higher level instructors here. That being said, they aren't the ONLY boots that I see. Lots of Rossi/Lange and Head, too.

 

[James]

I think its time. We need a boot flex measuring machine.

Years ago I skied with someone who was involved in such a project. It might have been for or with ASME. He said the upshot was they came up with a device but flex didn't correlate with people's experience. The same boot could be perceived very differently by different people. One thinking it stiff, the other soft.

We never discussed the whys but I'd imagine things like tibia length/femur length have a great deal to do with it.

 

[Josh Matta]

So well I do not have an axe to grind with these boot, I am certain that any 130 flex recreational boot would just be awful for my freeskiing. I am not only one who has experienced this either. The 2 Blizzard reps at Stowe, were given Mach 1 130. One is 26,(190lb)Former D1 racer and made Dev Team with me, ended up buying the Tecnica plugs, the other who is a 60, 220, L3 switched back to his Fischer Plugs. Nate Gardner Examiner 36 years old 230lb here use to try to ski in this boot as well, he is now in a 170 Flex DRS, he posts here as well.

The only person I have seen make this boot look good is Dave Merriam, but he has never actually bought his gear, and never pressures his tongue at all.

The thing is about any purchase we make is that we will generally have a giant blind spot about how good our purchase is, especially with boots since its such a process to go though to get well fitted boots. The entire point of this thread wasnt to slam the Tecnica but to show the difference between a rec boot and something with more Meat behind it. I prescribe to the idea that my boots shouldnt flex from outside input no matter what happens, and should barely flex in really deep hard carves on groomers. The Tecnica Mach 1 130 is extremely hard to ski (for me) and tiring in broken snow, and chop, seems fine on smooth groomers if you move laterally, but so often things are not perfect. In less than perfect snow I prefer my basically unflexible A tongued(not the B that everyone else gets) doubled plug Kr2 pro. I am certain my experience would be the same with any 130 recreational boot not just the tecnica.