Technique - Video Analysis - Part 2

[musicmatters]

Last Year I posted this thread for some technique feedback. Original Thread

I really tried to listen to the feedback and I have taken a few lessons to try improve on things.

For reference, here is the "before" video from last year. Before Video

I have been focused on eliminating that excessive pole plant and calming down the upper body. I have been working on weight forward, having my turns be more carving, better edging, and less skidding and sliding,

Here is the recent "After" video. After Video

Any more feedback on the improvements and further things I can work on are much appreciated

 

[skifastDDS]

After watching both videos, I think you achieved your goal of making the pole plants more symmetrical without the large upward swing previously visible on the left hand especially.

My main impression of both videos is that your skiing is characterized by a large up move at release, followed by a pivot and drift of the skis into the new turn. This effectively skips the first third of the turn and gives up a lot of ski performance in the process. To change this, you would need to focus on softening your old outside leg to release the ski, rather than standing up on it. This is not an easy process, but it will unlock a whole new world of control and ski performance. Once the release is changed, you will gain the ability to transfer balance to the new outside ski and tip it on edge at the beginning of the turn. Currently, you are not putting the ski on edge until it reaches the fall line, necessitating a hard edge set to control speed, followed by another up move.

 

[musicmatters]

Which leg is the old outside leg? The downhill leg?

 

[LiquidFeet]

^^ Yes.
Also known as the new inside leg.

 

[musicmatters]

^^ Yes.
Also known as the new inside leg.

After watching both videos, I think you achieved your goal of making the pole plants more symmetrical without the large upward swing previously visible on the left hand especially.

My main impression of both videos is that your skiing is characterized by a large up move at release, followed by a pivot and drift of the skis into the new turn. This effectively skips the first third of the turn and gives up a lot of ski performance in the process. To change this, you would need to focus on softening your old outside leg to release the ski, rather than standing up on it. This is not an easy process, but it will unlock a whole new world of control and ski performance. Once the release is changed, you will gain the ability to transfer balance to the new outside ski and tip it on edge at the beginning of the turn. Currently, you are not putting the ski on edge until it reaches the fall line, necessitating a hard edge set to control speed, followed by another up move.

can you talk more about “softening the leg rather then standing up on it”? I don’t feel like I Stand up on that leg as I am putting weight on the other leg.

How do I go about “softening it up”?

 

[Chris V.]

I have been focused on eliminating that excessive pole plant and calming down the upper body. I have been working on weight forward, having my turns be more carving, better edging, and less skidding and sliding

The changes I'm seeing are less leading turns with the upper body, and rounding out turns better. There's still plenty to work on of course. (Always.)

There are competing schools of thought concerning stance width and flexion-extension patterns. There's more than one model that works. My principal advice would be pick one model, and get very good at it. Then you can build versatility later.

The advice here so far is good. But with what I said in the last paragraph in mind, it would help to elicit useful feedback if you could answer some questions. Have you been taking lessons? Can you summarize the advice you received, what you worked on, and the drills you did in lessons? Can you describe in as much detail as possible the objectives you have been pursuing on these points, even if you're not yet performing them perfectly, or even at all, LOL--stance width? Flexion and extension movement pattern to make the transition from turn to turn? Mechanics that you use to initiate a new turn? Weight distribution foot to foot, and how that changes during the turn cycle?

 

[Fuller]

The idea is to "tip and soften" the inside leg and wait for the pressure to build on the new outside leg rather than actively pushing and/or using the outside heel to get the ski to turn. Correctly carving is a fundamental skill that works in a lot of conditions not just perfect groomers.

 

[musicmatters]

The changes I'm seeing are less leading turns with the upper body, and rounding out turns better. There's still plenty to work on of course. (Always.)

There are competing schools of thought concerning stance width and flexion-extension patterns. There's more than one model that works. My principal advice would be pick one model, and get very good at it. Then you can build versatility later.

The advice here so far is good. But with what I said in the last paragraph in mind, it would help to elicit useful feedback if you could answer some questions. Have you been taking lessons? Can you summarize the advice you received, what you worked on, and the drills you did in lessons? Can you describe in as much detail as possible the objectives you have been pursuing on these points, even if you're not yet performing them perfectly, or even at all, LOL--stance width? Flexion and extension movement pattern to make the transition from turn to turn? Mechanics that you use to initiate a new turn? Weight distribution foot to foot, and how that changes during the turn cycle?

I took 1 full day private, And one 1/2 day private lesson where we worked on:

- making sure my weight was forward. I was leaning way back for the past 35 years and had no idea I was doing this part completely wrong, and I thought your legs were supposed to burn going down a run. Once I got the weight forward concept down, I felt like I was then ready to take the next steps, and my legs almost never got tired.

- placing them weight on the new outside leg earlier in the turn. I felt like I started doing this and improving, but seems like I’m still missing the initial part of the turn in a carving fashion. It also made sure that I was not leaning on the inside ski too much in Starting the turns

- I was introduced to the idea of initiating a turn with femur head rotation. When I am trying to apply this concept, I do get the sensation of tipping and then feeling that pressure start to build on the new outside ski

- I was working on calming down the pole plants and keeping my hands in front and not letting the inside hand (and shoulder) lag behind. I feel like I have internalized this fairly well

- I’m watching my own videos I noticed that In my turns to the right I am able to have more hip angulation and it all feels better. My turns to the left I am not as able to angulate as much, and I seem to tip my whole body. This one frustrates me, because I feel like I know exactly what I need to be doing to the left but my body just seems to not want to bend in that direction

Can you talk about your stance width comment? Are you saying I’m too wide? Because my Instructor did explain that a wider stance is the more modern way of skiing (utilizing the current ski technology) and the way to get those carved turns. Where the method of keeping your boots as close as possible, was more of the older way, and gave you less of an athletic base to be able to carve the turns. Before that lesson I was always thinking that the boots touching was the desired width. I did internalize this wider stance mentality, and in watching other skiers, I do see 2 different styles in keeping boots together vs the wider strong athletic stance.

 

[skifastDDS]

can you talk more about “softening the leg rather then standing up on it”? I don’t feel like I Stand up on that leg as I am putting weight on the other leg.

How do I go about “softening it up”?

To illustrate what I am talking about here, I grabbed some frames from the second video. Here is the apex of a left-footed turn:

Balance is mostly on the inside ski here, probably partly due to the fact that your boot alignment appears soft on the left foot, and asymmetric in general. Seeing a qualified bootfitter/alignment specialist would be beneficial to your skiing.

The turn is released with an up move a few frames later:

When the legs are fully extended like this, it is biomechanically impossible to tip them on edge. You can try this in the living room, without any equipment. You'll find that you have a much greater range of lateral motion by bending your knees.

The skis are pivoted through the transition flat and the edges begin to engage as the skis approach the fall line. Weight is mostly on the inside ski here:

Just past apex of same right-footed turn, weight is transferred to outside ski as it hooks up, in order to get redirection and speed control.

Turn is released via an up move.

Making the changes I am suggesting entails completely reversing the flexion/extension pattern of your skiing. It will take a season or more, but it is worth it. The goal is to transfer weight and balance to the little toe edge of the new outside ski as you flex/relax the old outside ski at the end of a turn. High level freeskiers and world cup racers all exhibit this movement pattern. There are many drills that can help you along the path, but here is a good one to focus on eliminating the up move specifically:

I took 1 full day private, And one 1/2 day private lesson where we worked on:

- I was introduced to the idea of initiating a turn with femur head rotation. When I am trying to apply this concept, I do get the sensation of tipping and then feeling that pressure start to build on the new outside ski

Can you talk about your stance width comment? Are you saying I’m too wide? Because my Instructor did explain that a wider stance is the more modern way of skiing (utilizing the current ski technology) and the way to get those carved turns. Where the method of keeping your boots as close as possible, was more of the older way, and gave you less of an athletic base to be able to carve the turns. Before that lesson I was always thinking that the boots touching was the desired width. I did internalize this wider stance mentality, and in watching other skiers, I do see 2 different styles in keeping boots together vs the wider strong athletic stance.

I would encourage you to think about turns as starting from the feet and then moving up the kinetic chain from there - ankles, knees, hip, upper body. Femur head rotation is an effect of the mechanics of the feet and lower legs moving efficiently in a turn. It is not a movement cue that will help your skiing, IMO.

As far as stance width, there is no need to be wider than one's hip width in order to balance effectively. Wider stances offer stability, not balance. Learning to balance on the outside ski from beginning to end of a turn negates the need for the "outrigger" that a wide stance provides. In a wide stance, it is very difficult to transfer balance to the new ski, and will usually require a movement of the hips. In a narrow/hip width stance, you do not need to move your hips at all in order to transfer balance from one foot to the other, leading to more efficient skiing with less effort expended.

 

[Bad Bob]

Have you ever played with big toe little toe pressure? From the fall line on an uncrowded wide green put pressure down with the big toe of one foot and the little toe of the other foot. First few times keep this up all the way to a stop. Don't worry about your upper body while you are doing this exercise, you will be skiing from your feet up. Now try shifting that pressure between your feet when you want to turn, suspect you will find more edge pressure on both skis (carving). It is a really good drill for turn initiation and softening, or shortening, the inside leg.

 

[Chris V.]

- making sure my weight was forward. I was leaning way back for the past 35 years and had no idea I was doing this part completely wrong, and I thought your legs were supposed to burn going down a run. Once I got the weight forward concept down, I felt like I was then ready to take the next steps, and my legs almost never got tired.

Very good! As you continue to practice, you'll come to think of it as being centered on your feet, as opposed to forward. But most skiers are back, and therefore the instruction to get forward is effective. What you don't want to be doing is leaning into the cuffs and lifting your heels. Feel what parts of the soles of your feet are bearing weight. Weight will be distributed between your heels and the balls of your feet. It will shift side to side as you make turns. Now the next piece of the puzzle is to get away from allowing your shins to go vertical as you start a new turn. Especially at initiation, dorsiflect your ankles by lifting your toes inside the boots. This should reflexively trigger a larger movement of tucking your feet back under your hips. Ron Kipp has a great video segment about maintaining muscular tension in the feet and ankles. We don't want to be over-tensed and stiff, but the appropriate amount of tension is functional. We don't want those joints going floppy at any point in the turn cycle.

- placing them weight on the new outside leg earlier in the turn. I felt like I started doing this and improving, but seems like I’m still missing the initial part of the turn in a carving fashion. It also made sure that I was not leaning on the inside ski too much in Starting the turns

Yes. Or I prefer to say balancing on the new OUTside [edit!] leg, foot, and ski early early early. We don't want to be stomping on the new outside foot, but instead letting the balance flow smoothly to that side. This will require creating angulation very early. As you start to achieve this balance, you may find the urge to pivot the skis at the top of the turn melt away.

- I was introduced to the idea of initiating a turn with femur head rotation. When I am trying to apply this concept, I do get the sensation of tipping and then feeling that pressure start to build on the new outside ski

I would say just be careful that you don't interpret this as calling for a sudden rotation at the start of a new turn. That will necessarily lead to pivoting the skis and a kink in the start of the new turn. Instead, you'll be rotating over the femur head of the old outside leg continuously and progressively through the old turn, and then shift to rotating over the femur head of the NEW outside leg continuously and progressively through the new turn.

- I was working on calming down the pole plants and keeping my hands in front and not letting the inside hand (and shoulder) lag behind. I feel like I have internalized this fairly well

Good. For now, I would recommend that you focus mostly on what you are doing with your feet. Build from the snow up.

- I’m watching my own videos I noticed that In my turns to the right I am able to have more hip angulation and it all feels better. My turns to the left I am not as able to angulate as much, and I seem to tip my whole body. This one frustrates me, because I feel like I know exactly what I need to be doing to the left but my body just seems to not want to bend in that direction

Focus on balancing over the outside ski. From start to finish of a turn. That doesn't necessarily mean carving. The balance goal is the same whether you are carving or brushing turns. Everything you do with your upper body should have the objective of promoting that balance.

Can you talk about your stance width comment? Are you saying I’m too wide? Because my Instructor did explain that a wider stance is the more modern way of skiing (utilizing the current ski technology) and the way to get those carved turns. Where the method of keeping your boots as close as possible, was more of the older way, and gave you less of an athletic base to be able to carve the turns. Before that lesson I was always thinking that the boots touching was the desired width. I did internalize this wider stance mentality, and in watching other skiers, I do see 2 different styles in keeping boots together vs the wider strong athletic stance.

I'm not saying one way or the other. As I've said, there's more than one school of thought. However, if you choose to adopt a stance of the width your instructor was advocating, you will probably need to use a little extension in your transitions. That doesn't mean you should overdo it! Either way, you want to allow yourself to move into a new turn by balancing on the new outside ski, and tipping your feet to put the skis on the new edges. As skifastDDS notes, it's only possible to tip effectively if your joints are somewhat flexed. In creating the foot tipping, the new inside foot takes the lead, even though it is bearing little weight.

Revisiting the questions I posed earlier, can you describe the drills you did in lessons? What has your goal been in creating a flexion and extension movement pattern to make the transition from turn to turn? Can you outline in as much detail as possible the mechanics that you seek to use to initiate a new turn? A lot of skiers have trouble answering that question!

So you're going to need drills and progressions to work on some of these ideas. There's a Web site I like a lot, run by Razie, a frequent contributor here: effectiveskiing.com . Lots of free content, lots of drills.

And--I should have asked earlier--what skis are you on? Do you have your own boots?

 

[oldschoolskier]

You are a sitting on the tails a just a bit causing you to push them. As you release your edge and start the transition you should also bring your skis back (this shifts your wt forward) getting your tips to engage first. After that throughout the turn a slight rearwards shift can occur until the release starts.

My suggestion, that you get a feel for it is really increase that forward shift that you get a feel for it (intentionally too much) and then tune it back till it just engages.

You are close to being right.

 

[Erik Timmerman]

I'd ask you to focus on your feet. Focus on opening and closing the arch to activate your edging. A lot of what people are talking about is big movements of the body to affect your skis. That's the up move, the sudden dive into the turn, the balance ending up on the inside ski. You need to focus on the feet. Release your turn by opening the arch of the foot you are standing on you will be closing the arch of the other foot as this happens and eventually (be patient) you will move your balance to that foot which is now becoming your outside foot.

(I think your alignment is probably fine, you just need to use your inside ski)

 

[abcd]

For reference, here is the "before" video from last year. Before Video

Thank you for this thread. Seeing "before and after" really helps, it gives new dimension to the usual MA and I found it very educational.
@musicmatters Your skiing changed a lot! How does the new style of skiing feel compared to the old one? Is it better in any way ? Is it easier, more stable, more grip or feels more or less the same. Basically, is the improvement mostly the form or the function?

To knowledgeable people: is "before" and "after" a natural progression or there are some aspects of the "old" style that will need to be re-introduced in the new way of skiing? This is for my understanding of what is "good" and what is "better". Thank you

 

[musicmatters]

Revisiting the questions I posed earlier, can you describe the drills you did in lessons? What has your goal been in creating a flexion and extension movement pattern to make the transition from turn to turn? Can you outline in as much detail as possible the mechanics that you seek to use to initiate a new turn? A lot of skiers have trouble answering that question!

So you're going to need drills and progressions to work on some of these ideas. There's a Web site I like a lot, run by Razie, a frequent contributor here: effectiveskiing.com . Lots of free content, lots of drills.

And--I should have asked earlier--what skis are you on? Do you have your own boots?

Thanks for the feedback. Yes, I totally see how I am extending at the release, and I see how the preferred way is a flexed release.

As far as how I currently think about a turn (before I realized I was doing the extension/release incorrectly. I would think to transfer the weight from the downhill leg to the uphill leg. I have thinking about doing it as early as I can, well before you start to come across the fall line. I worked on this early pressure change a lot in my lessons. I would try to gradually transfer the pressure from downhill to uphill ski., during this change I would begin to tip the skis and angulate in the opposite direction, while trying to maintain an upper body that does not rotate in the direction of the turn.

The skis I was on in the video was Enforcer 93, but I do have Head iRally for more hardpack days. (those things are like a scalpel) I also have my own boots Nordica Sportmachine. I have seen a very good bootfitter and I am happy with how they feel.

I have checked out that Effectiveskiing.com website, and they do have some very good info. Especially on this topic of Flexed Release, and I feel like that is what I need to focus on next. I have a trip scheduled next week and I will begin to implement some of the drills to archive flexed release.

I will post a follow up video when I get back

I'd ask you to focus on your feet. Focus on opening and closing the arch to activate your edging. A lot of what people are talking about is big movements of the body to affect your skis. That's the up move, the sudden dive into the turn, the balance ending up on the inside ski. You need to focus on the feet. Release your turn by opening the arch of the foot you are standing on you will be closing the arch of the other foot as this happens and eventually (be patient) you will move your balance to that foot which is now becoming your outside foot.

Thank you for this. I have not been thinking about the arches of each foot during the release.

 

[Chris V.]

Good stuff, musicmatters. I wasn't the one urging you to learn to flex to release, but I'm not going to contradict any of that advice.

If you can get to the point of being able to finish a turn by traversing a bit balanced on the little toe edge of the old inside ski, on a flexed leg, you will have developed a powerful place you can use for moving into a new turn.

 

[Kneale Brownson]

Have you ever played with big toe little toe pressure? From the fall line on an uncrowded wide green put pressure down with the big toe of one foot and the little toe of the other foot. First few times keep this up all the way to a stop. Don't worry about your upper body while you are doing this exercise, you will be skiing from your feet up. Now try shifting that pressure between your feet when you want to turn, suspect you will find more edge pressure on both skis (carving). It is a really good drill for turn initiation and softening, or shortening, the inside leg.

I LOVE BT/LT, but I dislike the thought of "put pressure down". When I press down, I stiffen the leg. I'd rather think of feeling contact of the "toes" inside the boots from raising the other sides of the feet. So it would be raise the little toe side of the outside foot and raise the arch of the inside foot simultaneously.