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SBrown

So much better than a pro
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....I've got a beacon. What's bothering me is I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have been wearing it there yesterday. There were just a couple inches new overnight and it had been open a while. There must have been a lot of hikers through there over the weekend and even more Monday when the lift opened. I only wear my beacon on big days and need to rethink that.

Yep.
 

ADKmel

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I don't have a beacon, I appreciate the knowledge being shared here.
I have always been extremely cautious skiing in avi areas. I've missed some good skiing because I was to nervous to go in "avi prone areas- without a beacon).

I wonder if Mts' will find a way w/Beacon manufacturers to 'rent" them? I know Heli-skiing they give/rent you one as part of the package.
Renting them would educate the public and make safer and would be a God-send to the rescuers and the person trapped.

I used to skydive and I had an AAD (automatic opening device) Yes $$$ (over 1K) but if you got knocked out in freefall it could and has saved lives, I had one.
With that in mind I don't think 300$ is too much to save your life, especially if you are skiing regularly in areas where avalanches can happen.
 

mdf

entering the Big Couloir
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I bought a beacon the year that Jackson hole recommended anyo e skiing double blacks should have one. For a long time I always wore it out west, even when "clearly" unnecessary, so I wouldn't have to decide. Lately i have gotten out of that habit. I think i will reinstate my policy..
 

Tricia

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My wife said she read an article saying beacons may be required on the ridge going forward. She doesn't remember where.

I noticed the stuff past the gates was listed as closed today, as well as lift 4. I will be there tomorrow and post an update.
Schlassmans at Bridger requires a working beacon to get on the lift.

And please let's NOT utter those words about dying doing what he loved.
I want to live doing what I love.

So so so sorry. Was his dad the other guy caught?

And yes, the Eastern skier thing is a thing. I know you know my brother has been doing some avy education back there that was prompted by the two USST kids killed in Europe a few years ago.
Is your brother involved in the BRASS foundation?
https://brassfoundation.org
Its a pretty incredible way to honor those young men.
 

PisteOff

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I will be heading to Taos in a couple weeks to meet up with a group of nearly 2 dozen Pug Skiers. @ChunderBlunder and I have been talking about beacons for a couple seasons now. Up until recently we weren’t skiing terrain that warranted the expenditure. Well, that has changed. Given the terrain we now ski and the resorts on this years itinerary, (with a stark warning based on what just transpired on Kachina) I just purchased a pair of BCA Tracker 2’s for us.
 

SBrown

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I've got a beacon. What's bothering me is I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have been wearing it there yesterday. There were just a couple inches new overnight and it had been open a while. There must have been a lot of hikers through there over the weekend and even more Monday when the lift opened. I only wear my beacon on big days and need to rethink that.

To add from yesterday: I agree with you here, but I also know that Taos's snow report is quite often nothing like what actually is falling out of the sky. I am not sure why this is, but 2 years ago we had a lot of fun looking at snow report vs base depth there. They would report 8", and then the base depth would go up a foot. It was weird.

Also, Kachina was closed the day before the accident due to wind, right? so even without much snow from the sky, it could have loaded a whole lot more onto the slope.
 

DanoT

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Schlassmans at Bridger requires a working beacon to get on the lift.

Why just a beacon, why not shovel and probe? Or is the beacon requirement a kind of measure intended to keep less capable or less experienced skiers from getting in over their head?
 

PisteOff

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Why just a beacon, why not shovel and probe? Or is the beacon requirement a kind of measure intended to keep less capable or less experienced skiers from getting in over their head?
I’d say it’s more for the Patrol to be able to find you rapidly as opposed to spending hours probing and digging with all available resources.
 

Muleski

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I know that in the "real backcountry," my adult kids carry it all. Airbag backpack, beacon, probe, shovel, Recco in the helmet, etc. No way on earth are they ever going to carry that all skiing lift served inbounds, where patrol can be there fast, etc. They just are never going to ski with a backpack. Not happening. Nobody in my family skis with a hydration pack. We just don't. Been at this "a while." 60+ years for both my wife and I, and neither of us is 65. My wife and I expect to be back to 100+ days a season on snow, split East and West soon. "Kids" are over 200+, and ski in some "deep snow" in various parts of the world.

Since I THINK this was about in-bounds skiing, even in places that do get mitigated every day, but still have had slides, I think we should keep that in mind. I'm going to have a hell of a time suggesting to my professional adults in this sport that they consider wearing their beacons. Just saying........That would be a good first step.

My wife and I.....all in with our beacons. Depending on where we are. This was a pretty sobering and sad event for us. I think about the hundreds of days when we have heard bombs going off, and those discussions that moderate risk of a slide does not mean NO RISK. Just a wake up call.
 

PisteOff

Jeff
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I know that in the "real backcountry," my adult kids carry it all. Airbag backpack, beacon, probe, shovel, Recco in the helmet, etc. No way on earth are they ever going to carry that all skiing lift served inbounds, where patrol can be there fast, etc. They just are never going to ski with a backpack. Not happening. Nobody in my family skis with a hydration pack. We just don't. Been at this "a while." 60+ years for both my wife and I, and neither of us is 65. My wife and I expect to be back to 100+ days a season on snow, split East and West soon. "Kids" are over 200+, and ski in some "deep snow" in various parts of the world.

Since I THINK this was about in-bounds skiing, even in places that do get mitigated every day, but still have had slides, I think we should keep that in mind. I'm going to have a hell of a time suggesting to my professional adults in this sport that they consider wearing their beacons. Just saying........That would be a good first step.

My wife and I.....all in with our beacons. Depending on where we are. This was a pretty sobering and sad event for us. I think about the hundreds of days when we have heard bombs going off, and those discussions that moderate risk of a slide does not mean NO RISK. Just a wake up call.
Like you, I just don’t find a backpack necessary. We do, however, wear the small Camelbak zoid hydration packs under our jacket. The beacon, given where we go these days, makes sense. I also used to say I’d never use insole boot heaters.....guess what...
 

Bolder

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Definitely a sober reminder to be aware of your surroundings, look for avalanche prone areas. I've seen some spring shelves in the Alps from a lift that you could tell were just ready to let go.

I"m curious about the conditions that would have caused a patrolled inbounds area to slide. Freeze/thaw? heavy snow on top of light snow? I know that a lot of experts can "read" the snowpack. (I'm not implying anyone is at fault, nature will always surprise you, but genuinely interested in the answer.)
 

SBrown

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Definitely a sober reminder to be aware of your surroundings, look for avalanche prone areas. I've seen some spring shelves in the Alps from a lift that you could tell were just ready to let go.

I"m curious about the conditions that would have caused a patrolled inbounds area to slide. Freeze/thaw? heavy snow on top of light snow? I know that a lot of experts can "read" the snowpack. (I'm not implying anyone is at fault, nature will always surprise you, but genuinely interested in the answer.)

Someone closer to the area can and should answer (@pais alto ?), but I believe there is a very weak layer of faceted snow (probably something that fell in October) at the bottom of the snowpack. Then more weight on top, and it collapses. Conditions all over CO are like this, too, but I don't think quite as bad as in SW CO and NM. Plus, terrain is, by and large, steeper when you go that direction (Telluride, Silverton, etc).
 

Tom K.

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First, good vibes to the victims, and all searchers.

.“I’ve been trying to convince myself that there’s something better in life than skiing, but I can assure you, after years of looking, there isn’t.”

Words to live by, right there!

The second, (Tom Raymer) happened in mid February on the Moran Face - Tom and others had detonated hand charges but did not produce a slide, so they started down, that's when the snow gave way.

That was a huge slide. It took the sorta-lodge at the bottom of the Thunder Chairlift right out, and pulled parts of it almost down to the base area.

I knew Tom a teeny bit when I bummed in Jackson. At the time, he ran the OB (now "backcountry") program, where you signed out on a piece of paper at the summit patrol shack with your intended destination, then called in (on a LANDLINE!) when you returned. Different times. RIP, Tommy.

I always assumed it was that plus sort of a weed-out thing, as well.

Yup, plus a bit of unstated "guarding" of the good stuff by and for locals!
 

pais alto

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There have been some persistent slab issues in the northern NM and southern CO snowpack this year. Northern NM got storms in October that went to a base of facets, then in November warm storms set a crust layer on top of that in a lot of places. The northern NM backcountry skiers have been reporting a number of avalanches, at least one with people involved.
http://www.nnmae.org/phpbb3/index.php
http://www.nnmae.org/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=757&p=3477#p3477

An avalanche at Red Mountain Pass in the southern San Juans (near NM) caught part of a recreational Avy 2 class out of Silverton, one person was killed.
https://www.denverpost.com/2019/01/07/silverton-avalanche-safety-course-death/
 
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Pequenita

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I’d say it’s more for the Patrol to be able to find you rapidly as opposed to spending hours probing and digging with all available resources.

I always assumed it was that plus sort of a weed-out thing, as well.

Something I’ve been thinking of is, if someone is buried in an inbounds slide at a location where wearing a beacon is not required, *would* patrol do a beacon search (in addition to probe line, etc.)? I know a number of people who do wear them inbounds on storm days, and it’s likely that patrol knows this is a common practice, but it also doesn’t seem to be the best use of resources to do a beacon search if you really have no idea if someone is wearing one.
 

DanoT

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it also doesn’t seem to be the best use of resources to do a beacon search if you really have no idea if someone is wearing one.

It is the same dilemma with the Recco system, not knowing if a victim has Recco garment, is it not?
 

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