Stockli..worth the moolah for intermediates?

[Roymond]

Hi. First time ski purchase for intermediates- my wife and I are both solid intermediates- happy riding blues and single diamond blacks. Travelling from Australia to Sunpeaks for another crack this season and looking to purchase our first set of skis.
My good wife is 175 cm and 72 kg and I am 185 cm and 84 kg, and are both fit from cycling and running. We are getting intense lessons this time around for two weeks.
We have had several skis suggested - Head joy series for my wife and Head monster 83 or V10 for myself seem to be the best fit from what I can research.
We had a friend last night earbash us about his Stockli Laser AX purchase last year- "don't waste your money on anything else, just get this baby, you won't regret it" was the exact quote.
While my temptation is to simply get the ski that will make my mates jealous, I am wondering if for a first time purchase, these skis would not be beyond intermediates and we would be better off getting more experience on some more generic skis and then trade up later.
thanks for your comments...

 

[BGreen]

I gave a pair to a friend years ago, they helped him improve because they gave him confidence.

 

[Ron]

He's right.....

If you are OK with the cost of a AX, and are serious about learning to ski with solid technique and can get a ski on edge, go ahead and enjoy. Its very versatile. Its my favorite ski ever. No other ski feels like the AX.

 

[Plai]

I agree with your friend. Best ski purchase ever. I'm sure you can the other mentions on site of how Stockli laser ax are good for intermediates.

Good luck

 

[Roymond]

I agree with your friend. Best ski purchase ever. I'm sure you can the other mentions on site of how Stockli laser ax are good for intermediates.

Good luck

How do they perform on ungroomed snow? they are a not as wide as the others mentioned. We would like to venture into side piste when skills allow, and we aren't that keen with the "quiver"idea- travelling with a couple of pairs of skis for us and then the three kids ad we would need pack mules to holiday.

 

[givethepigeye]

Yes /thread

 

[Kent]

I too am a solid intermediate. I haven't skied the AXs yet but I do ski the Stormrider 88s as my most conditions ski. When the snow isn't too deep, they are wonderful off piste. For me, yes, Stöckli skis are worth the moolah for intermediates.

I skied Sun Peaks for a few days last season on my SR88s. Both Sun Peaks and the skis were marvelous.

 

[Philpug]

Have you read ANYTHING we have written about the AX?

From Stöckli AX vs. SX Cage Match:
Alphabetically, we will start with the AX. What makes the ski unique is how accommodating it is: it's just as comfortable at 10 mph as it is at 40. It doesn't matter what you ask of it; like Wesley from "The Princess Bride," it simply replies, "As you wish." The AX is a ski whose power window is obtainable by almost any skier.

• Why choose the AX? You appreciate quality and are willing to pay for it. The AX is not inexpensive but very well worth the price, a ski that everyone could own.

From Kästle vs Stöckli AX Cage Match:
The Stöckli Laser AX has been a darling of the Pugski community since it was introduced. What's not to like about it? It has a sweet spot that Willy Wonka would be proud of and performance so obtainable that almost any competent intermediate will appreciate it. I have said it before, this is one of the best values for an intermediate skier: even with a price tag north of $1,000, intermediates will never outgrow the Laser AX, so it will last them longer than the typical next three ski purchases and just get better right along with them.

• Why choose the Laser AX? You want to ride your ski, but still want the power when needed.

From our testers' reviews...

​

Stöckli Laser AX
Dimensions: 123-78-110
Radius: 15.6m@175cm
Sizes: 159, 167, 175, 183
Size tested: 175
Design: Carryover/NGT

Ron: (from last year) The new AX represents the new class of narrow all-mountain skis. It has a very unique build with softish, slightly rockered tips but is quite stiff torsionally. Moving down the ski, it is fairly stiff underfoot with thick sidewalls and ample camber. It features a more traditional tail (slightly rounded but flat-ended) that is slightly turned up with no rocker. It does what no other ski in this class can do. The tip becomes very stable when tipped on edge and pulls you into a turn like a true carving ski. The AX is eerily stable and quiet at speed, too. Taking it into softer snow like bumps and piled-up groomers, its softer tips absorb and rise up just enough. It just slices through push piles like the proverbial hot knife through butter. It can stand up to skis much wider with more rocker. I did find that the bindings may need to be moved forward just a touch. Overall this ski is fantastic! (I own it now.)

• Who is it for? Advanced intermediates and up who like the feel of a narrower ski for all-mountain conditions including boilerplate carving up to a few inches of fresh.
• Who is it not for? You would be surprised just how versatile this ski is! Those with aversions to four-digit prices just need to wait for a used pair -- but it will be worth the wait.
• Insider tip: Demo first to be sure of the mount point; the 175 skis like a 178.

UGASkiDawg: A Stöckli rocketship! The Laser AX is one of the finest skis I have ever put on my feet. I rode it at the SIA test two years ago and loved it then; I love it even more now. This is mostly because my tastes have evolved: I was previously looking for a strong one-ski quiver candidate, and the Kästle FX95 HP narrowly edged out the Stormrider 95. Now I’m looking to fill out a two-ski quiver, and this ski will be my narrower everyday ski along with a One Oh Something for the deeper days.

• Who is it for? People who like to have fun and spend money.
• Who is it not for? Beginner-level skiers and people who don’t like to pay top dollar.
• Insider tip: Raid the kids' college fund and/or your retirement accounts! Disclaimer: I make suggestions, you make decisions.

 

[Plai]

How do they perform on ungroomed snow? they are a not as wide as the others mentioned. We would like to venture into side piste when skills allow, and we aren't that keen with the "quiver"idea- travelling with a couple of pairs of skis for us and then the three kids ad we would need pack mules to holiday.

I haven't taken them off piste. I'm sure others can answer that question.

That said, have had them in 3" soft cut up and they never deflected. In another thread, I think I mentioned being able to go crazy (for me) fast, so that will help most situations and finally learning how to carve (better).

Also, have had them in between the trees and floated on slightly packed powder. Also have had them in soft and hard bumps, and I can meander through well. I'm not able to straight line yet -- still working on the courage for that.

The great thing about this model (for me), is that I think of where to go and it kinda of just happens. I don't have to think about the skis. With another pair, I'm much more conscious of how I had to make it work.

 

[Tony S]

First time ski purchase for intermediates- ...
We have had several skis suggested - Head joy series for my wife and Head monster 83 or V10 for myself seem to be the best fit from what I can research.
We had a friend last night earbash us about his Stockli Laser AX purchase last year- "don't waste your money on anything else, just get this baby, you won't regret it" was the exact quote.

Contrary voice here.

First, there aren't one or two or three best choices for you guys out there. Instead there are probably a dozen or more ski models that would work great. Homing in on one model that you - or, worse, someone else -thinks would be "perfect for you," without a demo, can be fun from a consumer high point of view, but doesn't reflect reality. In short, you don't know what you don't know yet. Buying your first pair of skis and learning over time what you like and don't like about them is a step on the journey towards finding out. Reading reviews and listening to friends is entertaining and should be enjoyed, but it won't shortcut the process.

Second, at your wife's size and fitness level she shouldn't limit herself to women's skis unless she wants to for non-functional reasons (graphics).

Third, if fluffy Sun Peaks is typical of where you ski, why go so narrow (77mm for the AX)? Why not a slightly wider ski with a more all-purpose design that will be a good trainer on both packed and unpacked snow?

People here have highly varying degrees of skill and experience, from enthusiastic hacks to world class pros. Most of the pros aren't going to come on strong recommending a specific ski for you over the interwebs without having seen you ski. And maybe not even then. They know better.

My two cents: consider traveling with an empty ski bag. When you get there, contact @DanoT who works at a shop. Do some demos. Consult with your instructor. Learn first hand what you want for a first do-everything ski. If you find one, bring it home.

 

[David Chaus]

More of what @Philpug said...
Have you read ANYTHING we have written about the AX?




Let’s add this from the “What if You Just Cannot Afford a Premium Ski” thread

Many of us have champagne tastes and beer budgets. It is nothing to be ashamed of; sometimes there are limitations in the budget, and trust me, we don’t judge. Don’t fret, hold your head high, because we are going to show you some great options to some of the popular premium models from each brand. Sure, you may make a slight compromise in performance or refinement, but you will also see up to a 50% savings in price, and for many that is a fair trade. That said, this is not to question the value of any of the premiums, because every one is worth the price of admission.

Here are some of the more popular alternatives:

This was a tough one. The Stöckli Laser AX is a unique ski. At 77 underfoot, you might think it is very biased to hard snow, but its unique forebody and gradual tip rise bring unmatched versatility to the table. I used to say that the AX was the best K2 Recon ever produced: if you gave a manufacturer an unlimited budget to build the ultimate Recon, you would get the Laser AX. That isn't a knock or even a backhanded compliment; it is praise for the AX (and the Recon, one of the most unappreciated skis ever). The Recon … err, AX is such an unassuming ski, one with a tremendous upside, yet it is so deceptively easy to ski.

So, if you cannot afford the Laser AX, what is the best alternative? First, there are no similar flat or systemless skis in this range, which means we need to look for something with a binding. Which ski in this range has the biggest sweet spot and a huge performance upside? We concluded that the Fischer Curv GT was about the closest mortally priced option. What we like about the Curv that most other skis in this class are missing (and something the AX has in spades) is low-speed performance. Good ski instructors want you to be able to do drills at slower speeds, because speed can mask mistakes. Both of these skis perform as well at slower speeds as they do at mach schnell.

• What are you keeping? Solid hard-snow performance.
• What are you losing? Binding options and a bit of versatility, with the loss of the gradual tip and rounded tail.
• Alternatives: Atomic Vantage X 80 CTi, Dynastar Speed Zone 12, Head Supershape i.Rally, K2 Super Charger.

 

[Ken_R]

Hi. First time ski purchase for intermediates- my wife and I are both solid intermediates- happy riding blues and single diamond blacks. Travelling from Australia to Sunpeaks for another crack this season and looking to purchase our first set of skis.
My good wife is 175 cm and 72 kg and I am 185 cm and 84 kg, and are both fit from cycling and running. We are getting intense lessons this time around for two weeks.
We have had several skis suggested - Head joy series for my wife and Head monster 83 or V10 for myself seem to be the best fit from what I can research.
We had a friend last night earbash us about his Stockli Laser AX purchase last year- "don't waste your money on anything else, just get this baby, you won't regret it" was the exact quote.
While my temptation is to simply get the ski that will make my mates jealous, I am wondering if for a first time purchase, these skis would not be beyond intermediates and we would be better off getting more experience on some more generic skis and then trade up later.
thanks for your comments...

If you cant demo and you can buy the AX then go for it. At worst you can sell it if you dont like it.

I am assuming you are both all set in regards to ski boots.

It is very hard to recommend a ski without seeing you ski and knowing your preferences in regards to snow conditions and terrain.

There are not many bad skis nowadays just bad skis for you.

 

[Jim McDonald]

I'm a 187/75 now 71-year-old limbo (that dark zone between intermediate and advanced) skier planning to buy my second AX, this time NOT the 183cm which was way too much ski for me. I'll probably buy the 175cm, but depending on a day or two of demo could even go for the 167cm (as a very expert ski friend mentioned, World Cup racers ski on 165cm SLs).
I second those saying you won't go wrong buying an AX, but based on my experience demo'ing to decide on 175 or 167 might be advisable.
I also like the suggestion from @Tony S that you go empty to Sun Peaks and experiment with various skis to find your perfect match. Check w/@DanoT if his shop or another there offers Stocki demos.

 

[DanoT]

Here is what the OP needs to know about buying skis in North America: due to the world wide strength of the US dollar, skis in Canada are priced significantly below US skis so a ski that sells for $800USD in the USA sells for $800CDN in Canada or after conversion it is about $500-550 if bought in Canada with US dollars.

The bad news is that Elevation Ski and Bike where I work at Sun Peaks does not carry Stockli and AFAIK neither do the 3 independent ski shops at SP. Might have to go to Whistler to find Stockli.

All of the ski shops at SP allow the cost of 2 days of demo rentals to be applied toward the purchase of new skis but you are then committed to buying from the shop that you rented from.

However, @Roymond, I am authorized to offer 2 FREE days of demo rental to my PugSki internet friends. This offer is not available during Xmas Holidays or when I am on a out of town ski road trip (early Feb. to mid March) except that I should be able to arrange a free rental for a specific date during my absence.

Brands carried by Elevation Ski & Bike include Salomon, Line, Rossignol, Elan, Nordica, and Head including their Joy and Kore models.

If you or anyone reading this are at Sun Peaks when I am around then I can offer a free mountain tour. There are also free Mountain Host guided tours twice daily as well as free tours from former Olympic and WC Champion Nancy Greene when she is at the resort and not away in Ottawa attending to her Senatorial obligations.

I can also recommend a ski instructor or two, if interested.

 

[Roymond]

Here is what the OP needs to know about buying skis in North America: due to the world wide strength of the US dollar, skis in Canada are priced significantly below US skis so a ski that sells for $800USD in the USA sells for $800CDN in Canada or after conversion it is about $500-550 if bought in Canada with US dollars.

The bad news is that Elevation Ski and Bike where I work at Sun Peaks does not carry Stockli and AFAIK neither do the 3 independent ski shops at SP. Might have to go to Whistler to find Stockli.

All of the ski shops at SP allow the cost of 2 days of demo rentals to be applied toward the purchase of new skis but you are then committed to buying from the shop that you rented from.

However, @Roymond, I am authorized to offer 2 FREE days of demo rental to my PugSki internet friends. This offer is not available during Xmas Holidays or when I am on a out of town ski road trip (early Feb. to mid March) except that I should be able to arrange a free rental for a specific date during my absence.

Brands carried by Elevation Ski & Bike include Salomon, Line, Rossignol, Elan, Nordica, and Head including their Joy and Kore models.

If you or anyone reading this are at Sun Peaks when I am around then I can offer a free mountain tour. There are also free Mountain Host guided tours twice daily as well as free tours from former Olympic and WC Champion Nancy Greene when she is at the resort and not away in Ottawa attending to her Senatorial obligations.

I can also recommend a ski instructor or two, if interested.

Thanks Dano. Will drop in. We are getting lessons with Heather Robilliard at Ski adventures but a tour from yourself would be appreciated.
Ill touch base when in town- Dec 30-Jan 11.

 

[DanoT]

Thanks Dano. Will drop in. We are getting lessons with Heather Robilliard at Ski adventures but a tour from yourself would be appreciated.
Ill touch base when in town- Dec 30-Jan 11.

I work part time so I am out on the mountain full time.

Send me a pm after you arrive and we can set up a meet time at the shop, get you some skis and then hit the trails.

 

[Roymond]

Have you read ANYTHING we have written about the AX?

From Stöckli AX vs. SX Cage Match:
Alphabetically, we will start with the AX. What makes the ski unique is how accommodating it is: it's just as comfortable at 10 mph as it is at 40. It doesn't matter what you ask of it; like Wesley from "The Princess Bride," it simply replies, "As you wish." The AX is a ski whose power window is obtainable by almost any skier.

• Why choose the AX? You appreciate quality and are willing to pay for it. The AX is not inexpensive but very well worth the price, a ski that everyone could own.

From Kästle vs Stöckli AX Cage Match:
The Stöckli Laser AX has been a darling of the Pugski community since it was introduced. What's not to like about it? It has a sweet spot that Willy Wonka would be proud of and performance so obtainable that almost any competent intermediate will appreciate it. I have said it before, this is one of the best values for an intermediate skier: even with a price tag north of $1,000, intermediates will never outgrow the Laser AX, so it will last them longer than the typical next three ski purchases and just get better right along with them.

• Why choose the Laser AX? You want to ride your ski, but still want the power when needed.

From our testers' reviews...

​

Stöckli Laser AX
Dimensions: 123-78-110
Radius: 15.6m@175cm
Sizes: 159, 167, 175, 183
Size tested: 175
Design: Carryover/NGT

Ron: (from last year) The new AX represents the new class of narrow all-mountain skis. It has a very unique build with softish, slightly rockered tips but is quite stiff torsionally. Moving down the ski, it is fairly stiff underfoot with thick sidewalls and ample camber. It features a more traditional tail (slightly rounded but flat-ended) that is slightly turned up with no rocker. It does what no other ski in this class can do. The tip becomes very stable when tipped on edge and pulls you into a turn like a true carving ski. The AX is eerily stable and quiet at speed, too. Taking it into softer snow like bumps and piled-up groomers, its softer tips absorb and rise up just enough. It just slices through push piles like the proverbial hot knife through butter. It can stand up to skis much wider with more rocker. I did find that the bindings may need to be moved forward just a touch. Overall this ski is fantastic! (I own it now.)

• Who is it for? Advanced intermediates and up who like the feel of a narrower ski for all-mountain conditions including boilerplate carving up to a few inches of fresh.
• Who is it not for? You would be surprised just how versatile this ski is! Those with aversions to four-digit prices just need to wait for a used pair -- but it will be worth the wait.
• Insider tip: Demo first to be sure of the mount point; the 175 skis like a 178.

UGASkiDawg: A Stöckli rocketship! The Laser AX is one of the finest skis I have ever put on my feet. I rode it at the SIA test two years ago and loved it then; I love it even more now. This is mostly because my tastes have evolved: I was previously looking for a strong one-ski quiver candidate, and the Kästle FX95 HP narrowly edged out the Stormrider 95. Now I’m looking to fill out a two-ski quiver, and this ski will be my narrower everyday ski along with a One Oh Something for the deeper days.

• Who is it for? People who like to have fun and spend money.
• Who is it not for? Beginner-level skiers and people who don’t like to pay top dollar.
• Insider tip: Raid the kids' college fund and/or your retirement accounts! Disclaimer: I make suggestions, you make decisions.

Thanks Phil. Id read the reviews - all glowing and certainly comprehensive. As an intermediate it’s easier to read ski reviews as not being applicable to newer skiers. I appreciate that your reviews reflect all abilities and are clear in what skis are relevant to certain skill levels but I thought I’d ask the open question and get the group take on the idea.

 

[Ron]

of all the ski's on the market, the AX is easy to recommend with the caveats I listed. Demoing is ALWAYS the best option as @Tony S correctly stated.

So, this begs a twist to the thread:

If anyone demoed the AX and didnt like it, please let us know. Please tell us what you didnt like. Not being sarcastic, This would be helpful for others who ask about the AX.

 

[Jim McDonald]

FWIW: I demo'd a 183 AX for several days in Switzerland and loved it, felt in complete control, on top of the ski, no problems at all.
So, against some very good advice here to go with a 175, I purchased a 183 AX; it never felt right, I never felt I had full control. I sold it.
I did double check, and the mount on 'my' skis had my boot mark right on the line. But I felt there was far more ski in front of me, and I never felt on top of the ski.
Of course I can't be sure the demo skis were centered, but I can't imagine they'd be off -- it was a major shop and not busy so the guy wasn't rushing the setup.
The one variable is that I'd changed boots, from a 315bsl Technica when I demo'd to a 326bsl Daleboot on 'my' skis.
I don't see why that would make such a huge difference in how I felt on the skis, but...
Comments welcomed and appreciated.

 

[Ron]

^^^. This is why I feel Stockli s can benefit from a few mm forward. Another good reason to demo so you can dial in the bindings.