LBK454

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Hello All,

I purchased a new pair of Stockli Laser AX at the end of the season. I’ve not skied them yet. I’ve read several threads here on new ski tuning, but I’m not clear on something: do Stockli skis need a new ski tune or is the factory tune good to go? Thanks!
 

MountainMonster

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Mine had the worst factory tune I’ve ever ran into, almost wrecked myself :philgoat:
Laser sx
Powder7
 

Ken_R

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Hello All,

I purchased a new pair of Stockli Laser AX at the end of the season. I’ve not skied them yet. I’ve read several threads here on new ski tuning, but I’m not clear on something: do Stockli skis need a new ski tune or is the factory tune good to go? Thanks!
No matter what I would take them to a good shop and give them a "new ski tune" (1º base, 3º edge). Factory tunes are generally a crapshoot. There is some consistency in the better brands but still, best to take them to a shop.
 

JMD

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I check the tune on any new ski. I have found many new skis could use a new ski tune (poor factory finish). This last weekend I took a new pair of 18/19 Stockli Laser Sl 170cm skis out of their factory wrapper. I ran a true bar down and found a little gap by the tips but a very good flat base the rest of the ski. The base edge was smooth at .5 degree. The side edge was slightly off from my desired 3 degrees so I touched it up. The base structure looks good for cold winter snow. Did 6 wax/scrape/brush cycles with Maplus Race Base Soft Wax and set them aside until next season. The tune on this pair was so close I do not feel a full tune/grind is needed. YMMV. JMD.
 
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David

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I would never ski on the factory tune.
 

James

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Stockli does a 1.2 degree base bevel on the AX. They consider this amazing. You may or may not.
 

raytseng

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A lot of this depends on you how picky you are and what do you have to gain or lose?
I got a new stockli AX and liked it fine with the factory tune. I'm not racing for anything of consequence though.
It is very low probability that the ski will be unskiable due to a bad factory tune. You can do some visual checks if something looks railed or really off or dull.

From the Stockli thread, they did put some conscious effort to put on a very high quality "custom" factory tune, they thought would be best for this ski/skier; it is not without thought when they shipped it out of the factory. Whether there was some issue from after it left the factory to when it got to you that warped that tune is a different story.

The other question is do you have a competent tuner that you know will improve the ski better than factory? See the other thread where they detuned the tips/tails and potentially made the ski worse than factory.
Do you take off the factory tires from a new car?

I'd suggest just ski it first then if it isn't to your liking then take it in.

I would say the scenarios where maybe you do immediately tune your AX
1) You spot something grossly wrong with flatness or refuse to ski with a 1.2 / 2 specced tune
2) You are competing or plan to do extremely high speed risky skiing where a bad tune could injure you,
3) You are very picky that if the ski isn't tuned a certain way you're going to immediately quit for the day and don't have backup skis to swap to.
4) you have bets or competitions to win
 

Scrundy

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^^^
Never experienced that but I been doing my own for years. I put 3 side on my AX and touch up after every couple days on snow with fine diamond stone. I ski New England ice, and if I had to rely on a shop I’d spend more time jerking around not to mention money then I want too.
 

David

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Winner. Winner. Chicken dinner.
From my experience, probably more than half of the shops out there sent out bad tunes.
There's only 1 shop I let tune my skis. Regardless of where I'm living and I'll ship them if I need to. In the midwest we get a lot of ice so I polish with a stone when I wax and tune every 18-20 days if needed.
 

Swiss Toni

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Stöckli currently use two custom built Montana Saphir tuning machines for final grinding, one grinds the bases and the other the base and side edges.


So, unless you want to change the edge angles or the base structure there is not much point in giving them a shop tune as they have already been tuned to a standard that is higher than most shops can achieve.

None of the shop tuning machines currently available are capable of grinding the edges to 1.0°/ 3.0° or whatever along their entire length, there is always some variance. Wintersteiger quote edge angle tolerances of ±0.25 degrees for their automatic machines, unfortunately I don’t know what the tolerances are for Montana machines, but I wouldn’t expect them to be any better.
 

James

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It's not the angles, it's the base flatness that's usually a problem or hanging burrs. Burrs are easy enough to fix, the other stuff is not. I had one ski in Chamonix so bad it was dangerous and I paid to rent another ski as the original shop was an hour away.

Why it's so bad with machines approaching $500k is a bit of a mystery. Monkeys can turn the machine on, but can't get consistent results.

There used to be a guy who used the most basic grinder hand fed, than hand beveled, and did a better job than most shops. Eventually he had a shop with the new automatic machines but kept his quality standards. His shop was one of the extremely few trusted.

Until that rental in Chamonix, worst tuned skis I've used by far were in Verbier, Switzerland.
 
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Ken_R

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Winner. Winner. Chicken dinner.
From my experience, probably more than half of the shops out there sent out bad tunes.
Yep. Im lucky to live in Colorado and have a few outstanding shops close by. But yeah, great shop tunes are not the norm nationwide from what I hear.
 

Swiss Toni

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Monkeys can turn the machine on, but can't get consistent results.
The “monkeys” just operate the machines, they usually only have access to Easy Mode, you need a password to access Professional Mode where changes to the programs can be made. There are also different programs for rental and customer skis. Very few shops measure the angles and check that the base is flat after the skis come off the machine.

Not only are tuning machines expensive to buy they are also expensive to service and maintain, French speaking people often have an aversion to spending money on service and maintenance.

The rental business Europe is very competitive and may skiers rent skis on price, often through online booking agents who sit on the money for as long as possible, so there is a great temptation to cut corners. I wouldn’t have my skis tuned in a resort unless it was absolutely necessary.
 

Wilhelmson

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If only there were a very long thread about how to check the base angle. Do what you like but I would suggest leaving the base edges alone and hand filing and stoning the side edges to your desired specs. Then wax and scrape them a few times a put them somewhere in your home where you can stare at them on a hot summer day.

After you bump a few rocks in October because you can't wait to use the skis take them in to a good shop for a grind and tune.
 

David

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I've never had a new ski with flat bases including my Stockli's. They usually have a spot or two that are base high and a spot or two that are railed. I demo'd a pair from a manufacturer demo tent next to a lift once that had one concave shovel and one convex. When I told them what was going on they said they were just tuned the night before in their local factory and I didn't know anything. I know enough not to buy their skis!
 

Steve

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And therein is where the consumer knows more than the Industry Pro. What we buy is the ultimate expression of understanding.
 

Paul Lutes

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........

Do you take off the factory tires from a new car?

......
Whole other thread. I actually do this very thing, as standard AWD SUVs in our area invariably all come with All Season tires, which will get you killed on a steep grade in wet, sloppy snow.

...... but I think this falls into either option 1 or 2!
 

ski otter 2

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I've had a number of Stocklis over the years, some great out of the wrap, some not. I suggest checking and/or skiing them first to see. They might be great.

My latest pair, of SR 95s, were poorly tuned (base badly railed, base bevel badly poor). Not sure whether the mess happened from the factory or from a shop.

The pair before that, AXes, were fine. They got better later when I gave them my own tune (.7/3, base flatness left alone), but they were fine on arrival. Just because of the tolerances range (c. +/- .25?), I gather, those skis were initially just under 1° base bevel, rather than the 1.25° they apparently center their machine's settings at.

At SIA this year in Colo. (for 19/20 skis), Stockli was the only brand/tent I went to that had a number of poorly tuned skis, one pair unskiable. (Probably tuned at a local Summit or Eagle county tune shop.)
 
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