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ski otter 2

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For better or worse, I think the cage match is valid and useful, since the AX (for most in 175) tends to be the popular wisdom baseline ski for this width ski segment, in spite of great differences between the two skis. The Augment 77, to me, feels like a race-derived all mountain precision ski, with its race roots obvious. It has shed the need for smooth, even slopes (no bone jarring, for instance), with a better-for-all mountain suspension, and relaxed things a bit; but to me feels still too limited, too race-derived somehow, maybe; and not as yet quite versatile enough for its new uses. Not sure, here - I'd have to experiment more with a pair; but I sure am rooting for Augment.

The AX in the shorter 175, on the other hand, is dialed in for what it does, and for most a hoot; it has this huge, easy "pop" turn to it that almost eliminates the need to flex or work the ski (and yet is a bit out of sync with actually flexing the carve, to me; there was a great description from the ski rep, @LindseyB, in another thread, that to me was spot on about this extra 175 rebound, as compared to the AR, a ski whose rebound matches its carve, and fits working the flex and/or edge-riding. I've not skied shorter AXes to see if they are similar to the 175, but the longer AX 182/183 is very different in this regard, a more dialed in carve with more character to it - but less versatility, for many.

(Note: I have to admit that I own and love the 182/183, as the baseline ski here for me, even if I'm not going to attack big bump fields with it any time soon.)
 

markojp

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The AX is the one ski I would pick if I could only have one ski; fortunately, that will never happen. I haven't been on my AXs in almost a year, mainly due to finally (after an embarrassing amount of time) I've figured out the right skis for the right conditions. The Augments sound sweet, but too wide, for hard and fast groomers.

Then take out an AR... let 83 underfoot thoroughly turn your assumptions upside down. :)
 
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Ron

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The Augment 77, to me, feels like a race-derived all mountain precision ski, with its race roots obvious. It has shed the need for smooth, even slopes (no bone jarring, for instance), with a better-for-all mountain suspension, and relaxed things a bit; but to me feels still too limited, too race-derived somehow, maybe; and not as yet quite versatile enough for its new uses. Not sure, here - I'd have to experiment more with a pair; but I sure am rooting for Augment.

Good assessment and fair enough however, at least here with soft snow in the off piste, I am finding the 77 (175) to be quite versatile. I think it's versatility lies in the ski's construction. Its so calm (and I don't want to use the term damp as its not accurate) and undeflected in 3D snow, its fantastic, It is simply unshakable allowing me to ski easier in junk snow since the ski is quite easy to control as long as you stay on top of it. I have 5 days on the 77 and I'm figuring some things out with the ski and how it performs the best. What I think Augment needs to do is revise it's stiffness scale to maybe 3-5 choices and make the ski softer than the current 10. I am skiing the 8 and for the majority of time its a good level of stiffness but its by no means a soft or even moderately soft ski but it has a fantastic flex pattern to it.. More skiers (especially lightweights) are going to want a softer option. Of course, there are some drawbacks to this. I wonder if it would change the ski's amazing ride quality; something that makes this ski standout above all others. the other aspect of the 77 is the balanced feel of the ski. I need to weigh them but they ski light and very flickable. I enjoy these more than the AX (for instance) because of their fun factor. I am about 98% sure I am buying a pair for my everyday ski where the majority of time would be on groomed snow, broken and soft bumps.
 
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Andy Mink

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LOL, I'm good with the 8 flex. there is a difference between a "euro" all mountain ski and a western All mountain ski.
I mean all those slender, lightweight folks. I'm looking at you, @Philpug. I just stand on skis and they bend and maybe cry a little.
 

no edge

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How would one know what flex to order. It's nice to have the option but what would be the reference point. It means demo or guess.

Sounds like a fantastic ski.
 

Ron

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@Augment Skis

I think thats part of the sorting out process. However, Augment does put a recommendation for each ski which is 8-10. 8 on the 77 is a mid+ stiffness in general (tails are stiffer than the tips) l. 10 on the 88 is similar to a Brahma (@Philpug ) I like the 8 but lighter skiers may want more flex.
 

Philpug

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@Augment Skis

I think thats part of the sorting out process. However, Augment does put a recommendation for each ski which is 8-10. 8 on the 77 is a mid+ stiffness in general (tails are stiffer than the tips) l. 10 on the 88 is similar to a Brahma (@Philpug ) I like the 8 but lighter skiers may want more flex.
I have hand flexed the 8 and 10 back to back and kcab to kcab and I was hard pressed to tell the difference. On the snow the the differences will be even that much more subtle.
 
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Augment Skis

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I should have looked at the Augment web site before demanding that cage fight mis-match: two completely different beasts. I withdraw my previous request and would like to replace it with WRT-ST vs Augment SL World Cup pro. Still not a perfect comparison, as there's really nothing like the tweener WRT-ST, but this would work.
@Paul Lutes we are happy to make that cage match happen
 

Augment Skis

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For better or worse, I think the cage match is valid and useful, since the AX (for most in 175) tends to be the popular wisdom baseline ski for this width ski segment, in spite of great differences between the two skis. The Augment 77, to me, feels like a race-derived all mountain precision ski, with its race roots obvious. It has shed the need for smooth, even slopes (no bone jarring, for instance), with a better-for-all mountain suspension, and relaxed things a bit; but to me feels still too limited, too race-derived somehow, maybe; and not as yet quite versatile enough for its new uses. Not sure, here - I'd have to experiment more with a pair; but I sure am rooting for Augment.

The AX in the shorter 175, on the other hand, is dialed in for what it does, and for most a hoot; it has this huge, easy "pop" turn to it that almost eliminates the need to flex or work the ski (and yet is a bit out of sync with actually flexing the carve, to me; there was a great description from the ski rep, @LindseyB, in another thread, that to me was spot on about this extra 175 rebound, as compared to the AR, a ski whose rebound matches its carve, and fits working the flex and/or edge-riding. I've not skied shorter AXes to see if they are similar to the 175, but the longer AX 182/183 is very different in this regard, a more dialed in carve with more character to it - but less versatility, for many.

(Note: I have to admit that I own and love the 182/183, as the baseline ski here for me, even if I'm not going to attack big bump fields with it any time soon.)
@ski otter 2 did we meet you at the Winter Park demo?
 

Augment Skis

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Good assessment and fair enough however, at least here with soft snow in the off piste, I am finding the 77 (175) to be quite versatile. I think it's versatility lies in the ski's construction. Its so calm (and I don't want to use the term damp as its not accurate) and undeflected in 3D snow, its fantastic, It is simply unshakable allowing me to ski easier in junk snow since the ski is quite easy to control as long as you stay on top of it. I have 5 days on the 77 and I'm figuring some things out with the ski and how it performs the best. What I think Augment needs to do is revise it's stiffness scale to maybe 3-5 choices and make the ski softer than the current 10. I am skiing the 8 and for the majority of time its a good level of stiffness but its by no means a soft or even moderately soft ski but it has a fantastic flex pattern to it.. More skiers (especially lightweights) are going to want a softer option. Of course, there are some drawbacks to this. I wonder if it would change the ski's amazing ride quality; something that makes this ski standout above all others. the other aspect of the 77 is the balanced feel of the ski. I need to weigh them but they ski light and very flickable. I enjoy these more than the AX (for instance) because of their fun factor. I am about 98% sure I am buying a pair for my everyday ski where the majority of time would be on groomed snow, broken and soft bumps.
@Ron you'll be happy to know that we're revising the flex offerings starting with the 20/21 season. At the industry demos you would have seen a few of the skis starting to show signs of this with "Soft" written on their decks. We realize that this is Austrian soft and not soft in the standard definition but it's an important change as 1 to 10 is a lot for retailers and skiers alike to have to work with. Soft now covers 8-10, Medium is 4-7. One will always be able to order by number but we're going to gravitate away from that. Race skis will be left in the 1-10 as we feel that it aids racers in being able to pick their number and stick with it or know that they can order two pairs of the new 189cm Master Pro GS 28meter ski and get a 4 and a 7 for varying conditions...etc.
 

Augment Skis

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How would one know what flex to order. It's nice to have the option but what would be the reference point. It means demo or guess.

Sounds like a fantastic ski.
@no edge we're hoping that the retail shops will have demo'd skis and will be able to suggest flexes for people but we also feel strongly that the soft flex covers most skier's needs with some exceptions into the medium range. We don't expect to sell many stiff all-mountain skis here in North America.
 

ski otter 2

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@ski otter 2 did we meet you at the Winter Park demo?
Yes, I talked a good bit with you there, partly when Phil was there too, and I loved those GS Pro skis late on that first day. I hope to get on more of your line when possible, along with a few other people from my shop too.
I'd love to get my place to add Augment, though that is up to others, and my shop currently stays away from race ski emphasis, leaving that area to other shops, for good or ill. But they do take on a few new brands each year, and often rotate these over time, as a way for new things to get exposure, and to test new relationships. Fingers crossed.
 

Philpug

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@Ron you'll be happy to know that we're revising the flex offerings starting with the 20/21 season. At the industry demos you would have seen a few of the skis starting to show signs of this with "Soft" written on their decks. We realize that this is Austrian soft and not soft in the standard definition but it's an important change as 1 to 10 is a lot for retailers and skiers alike to have to work with. Soft now covers 8-10, Medium is 4-7. One will always be able to order by number but we're going to gravitate away from that. Race skis will be left in the 1-10 as we feel that it aids racers in being able to pick their number and stick with it or know that they can order two pairs of the new 189cm Master Pro GS 28meter ski and get a 4 and a 7 for varying conditions...etc.
May I suggest "Super Stiff", "Stiff" and "Less Stiff" as the three flex options ;)
 

Ron

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race ski emphasis

I get that but the "all mountain" 77,88 and 98 are really unique skis and are a great cross over skis. Racers and those with technical backgrounds understand and appreciate these ski's. I had a interesting experience the other day with 3 coaches while riding the lift. They saw my 77's and asked about the brand, the one coach knew about Croc and then picked up on the quality of this ski. Getting off the lift, all 3 wanted to flex and fondle it. One took pics. I think he would have bought my demo pair :).
 

Ron

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May I suggest "Super Stuff", "Stiff" and "Less Stiff" as the three flex options ;)

or Super Stiff... LOL, yeah, I don't think even the 8 is less than "pretty stiff". :). the tip does have a touch more flex to it. Damn, its addictive in the apex of the turn though.
 

Augment Skis

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Yes, I talked a good bit with you there, partly when Phil was there too, and I loved those GS Pro skis late on that first day. I hope to get on more of your line when possible, along with a few other people from my shop too.
I'd love to get my place to add Augment, though that is up to others, and my shop currently stays away from race ski emphasis, leaving that area to other shops, for good or ill. But they do take on a few new brands each year, and often rotate these over time, as a way for new things to get exposure, and to test new relationships. Fingers crossed.
Yes, I remember you well. I remember how much you liked the 185 Master Pro GS. We are fully aware that not every shop will carry our full line of skis including race so if you'd like to show the rest of the staff the order form, email me, Geoff, at [email protected] and I'll get that to you.
 

Augment Skis

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or Super Stiff... LOL, yeah, I don't think even the 8 is less than "pretty stiff". :). the tip does have a touch more flex to it. Damn, its addictive in the apex of the turn though.
I just skied the 88s down Docs Run at the Canyons in Park City. I have never skied that run with as much confidence as I just did. I thought about pulling up to slow down but then realized that the skis could take all that I could give them and so much more. Usually I get down about the same time as my wife and kids who ride the gondola down. This time I beat them by a lot. Love that ski.
 

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