Stockli Laser AX...Size?

[ScottB]

Ski Duzzi,

You seem to be new on the site judging by your join date. I would caution about posting your phone number on these posts, you never know if a Russian Troll will get it and destroy your life or help you get elected to office (kidding, but I do think you should edit your post and remove the #)

The typical technique is we private message each other (PM) which you do through the inbox in the upper right corner. I think it is OK to share private info in a PM, the public can't get to it, not sure if Phil Pug and the moderators can, so I apply a reasonable filter even there.

You can hit the edit button for a certain length of time, not sure how long, but eventually it goes away.

I will PM you just to try it out with you.

Scott B.

 

[Uncle-A]

@SkiDuzzi the AX is a front side carving ski that is made for the east coast and I have never heard a bad thing about the ski. In the first post nothing was said about your age or if you do much bump skiing. These are the only two things that would make me go with the 175, if you are up in years or if you are a serious bump skier. Than maybe the 182 might be a bit long.

 

[Guy in Shorts]

My concern over the 175 is tail wash out at higher speeds?

6' 240# Clyde here that logged 39 days this season on a pair of 177 Laser SC's. My top speed is at the lower end of the speed range with a max of 45 maybe 50 MPH per Ski Tracks. Ran these bad boys over all the best steep lines at Killington. Tails stayed glued to the snow. Was curious how the ski would react skiing full tilt into thick glue snow and was lucky enough to find a wet gun on the bottom of Bear Mtn. Was able to stand on the tails safely carving thru the sticky snow. Watched a guy come thru behind me high speed double eject trying to mirror my line. Baby seal skin layer makes them super smooth on the groomers as expected. The way the ski preformed in the off piste 3D snow is the reason it got pulled out of truck 25% of the time. They love fresh snow over normal hard New England surface. Went as far to call them my favorite powder ski. Even with a foot of fresh one day they were too much fun to put away. Ski can go from carving turns in powder right into gripping the underlying solid base without missing a beat.

Stockli Laser SC is a beefier version of the AX. Better choice for a Clyde that worried about tail washout. They come in 177 which would be your perfect size.

 

[Seldomski]

My concern over the 175 is tail wash out at higher speeds?

I did not have trouble with tails washing out or edge grip on either 175 or 182 Laser AX (I skied them in Aspen and St. Anton with very good snow conditions, not in the east). The tails hold more than they do on Kendo.

Regarding the Laser SC - I also happened to get a day on the 177 Laser SC (2018) in Deer Valley. Again, conditions were excellent. The SC has a tighter turn radius and is more nimble than the AX. And yes, its tail holds more - I had more 'woah there's the tail!' moments on the SC. The SC prefers short to medium turns vs. the AX that definitely prefers medium. Either will do any turn shape, they just are 'happier' at those radii.

I guess final note is the stance for these skis. The SC required more forward pressure vs. the AX. AX required more forward pressure than my Kendo. Stormrider 95 (2019) I demo'd wanted me aft vs. my Kendo. This could just be due to differences in the bindings - maybe they can be tweaked.

 

[mdf]

To reiterate my experience - I have skied the 16X, 17X, and 18X lenghts (don't want to look up the last digit or remember it wrong).
At my size, 200 lbs, 5'10",
the 16X is a fantastic bump ski.
the 17X is a great go-anywhere ski, including being pretty good in ice bumps (wrong time of day for good bumps)
the 18X is good to go fast on ice, too much work anywhere else.

The 18X was the only ski I have ever skied that I thought was too long for me. My other skis are all in the 180's.

These were different years,. Ithink all of them were at or close to mounted on the line.

In hindsight, I have less experience than I should demoing the same ski in different lengths, but I was struck by how big the difference between lengths is on this ski.

 

[James]

You can always just pick up this pair of 175's, demo the 182's, then decide.

https://www.pugski.com/threads/stockli-laser-ax-175-17-18-model.14505/#post-358480

Tail wash has little or nothing to do with length. You can carve gs size turns all day on a 165 slalom. Even 157. Hell, almost any short carver. 113 elan psx's make great arcs. That's about all they're good for imo.

Tail design will have something to do with how it holds and releases.

Length will give you stability, and you will ski faster in general. 50 mph on a salom is in the pay attention adventure zone. It's not a big deal on a solid longer ski. Some race skis don't wake up till 50.

The other area is slowing down, non carved turn. If a ski is real short, and you're large, it can't supply enough turning force quickly. It just means you have to ski it a little differently, plan ahead, and stay centered for the slowing. It can be very uncomfortable having to scrub speed quickly.

You could ski this thing at 168. But if you want speed, at your size slowing down becomes an issue and it won't have the stability. You'll ski slower.
I don't see 175 vs 182 as a big issue in slowing though.

I do like the idea of the 177 sc. That's 72 wide, max length is 177. Then there's the Sx, at 70 wide, max length 184.

Check this thread. There's at least one person who's 260#.

Simply put, the SX is stunning carving instrument of the highest quality when you don't want to drive an SL-only race ski all day. This is a ripping frontside trench-digger with impeccable manners and limitless power handling.

The AX model with "Turtle Shell Comfort" feature has just a wee-hint of tip rocker and different geometry to deliver a ride nearly as intensely satisfying as the SX, but in a more forgiving and adaptable chassis. The AX trades off a bit of carving intensity and surgical accuracy for a slightly looser and forgiving turn engagement up front and an ever-so-slightly less-intensive mid-turn edge-set feeling. The AX does not demand the same level of attention the SX does when you exit your turn under pressure, letting you get a little more relaxed after your apex (if you want).

 

[markojp]

My concern over the 175 is tail wash out at higher speeds?

Nope. That'll be pilot error.

 

[ski otter 2]

Are you keeping the Kendos? There will be more of an overlap with the 175 AXes. If it's a replacement, and you have been happy with the Kendos, then the 175s would be a nice choice, more apples to apples. (If you already have too many turny, quick edge to edge skis, then the 183s, maybe.)

I'd suspect bumps are one deciding factor. If you do bump fields a lot, definitely the 175s. If you do only a few mild bump runs a day, then the longer 183s come into play.

Both are versatile off piste and in mild powder/crud, but the 183s are more fore-aft stable. Just today I was in 3-4" at Mary Jane/Winter Park on the 183s. So smooth. Heaven.




Note: I'm in Colorado, lighter weight (5'10"/150), and I own the 183 AX (mounted +2 to +4). I've demoed the 175. Great ski too.
.

 

[HardDaysNight]

Tail wash has little or nothing to do with length. You can carve gs size turns all day on a 165 slalom.

Pleased someone here has a clue! If the tails are washing out it’s crap technique, nothing more.

 

[David]

I'm 6' 260. My daily drivers are 186 but my carvers are 177 and super quick. I'd go with the shorter if you're after a quick carver.

 

[martyg]

My concern over the 175 is tail wash out at higher speeds?

Only if you are too far forward.

 

[martyg]

I think you are on the write tract to what would happen with the 175. Based on the dimensions I think it is more of a SL ski than a GS ski in the shorter length and in your first post you said you wanted to make some GS turns as well as SL turns. That is part of why I think you will find the longer ski a good fit. It will also help you in the softer snow when you do go out west. In your own words you are an advanced skier, the longer ski could not hurt your skiing it could only be a more stable ski especially at a advanced speed. Do you really want a short ski when making faster GS turns?

Longer ski = less edge engagement due to fewer pound per square inch on the edge. Look at what went on in FIS a few years ago with ski length.

A longer ski will be more stable, but if that person is an advanced skier their pressure control skills will be honed.

 

[markojp]

Longer ski = less edge engagement due to fewer pound per square inch on the edge. Look at what went on in FIS a few years ago with ski length.

A longer ski will be more stable, but if that person is an advanced skier their pressure control skills will be honed.

FIS SL skis are amazing even at 165. Much more stable than many recreational front side skis in longer lengths, but we're picking nits here.

 

[James]

Note: I'm in Colorado, lighter weight (5'10"/150), and I own the 183 AX (mounted +2 to +4). I've demoed the 175. Great ski too.

It's a demo binding you move?

 

[Uncle-A]

Longer ski = less edge engagement due to fewer pound per square inch on the edge. Look at what went on in FIS a few years ago with ski length.

A longer ski will be more stable, but if that person is an advanced skier their pressure control skills will be honed.

Are they a bigger pair of brakes to stop with?

 

[François Pugh]

It depends on the snow. Softer snow bigger ski gives a bigger platform and more force available with the bigger ski before the platform breaks; hard snow, smaller platform provides more edge pressure and more force available from the smaller ski.

 

[ski otter 2]

It's a demo binding you move?

Depends on the ski & width. (I'll use Marker Schizo if c. 95 or wider ski, often.)

With 183 AX, Tyrolia PRD 12 w/o plate (both toe and heal adjustable).
I mostly keep it at +4, except back as much as to +2 if I want to emphasize a GS feel over ease and quickness.

With my friend's 183 AX, Tyrolia Attack2-13 AT Demo (AT = All Types of boot).
We use a +1 to +2 setting. (It's equally adjustable - more playful but otherwise equally fun feel).

I added the color because the AT version has a different plastic mold, roughly 1 cm taller than a regular, more common Attack2-13 Demo binding. This setup feels as if it is a cm or two more forward than the PRD 12 at equal mount setting, not sure why. It has about 3/4 cm greater height than the PRD 12, as I recall.)

 

[Dakine]

FIS SL skis are amazing even at 165. Much more stable than many recreational front side skis in longer lengths, but we're picking nits here.

Slalom skis are remarkably stable as long as you keep them on edge.
If you are going straight or traversing they are squirrely dogs.
And tucking with SL skis is an adventure in itself.

 

[James]

Look at what went on in FIS a few years ago with ski length.

Length hasn't changed that much.
Ligety went from 191cm/29m to 195cm/35m. Now they're back to 193cm/30m.
It's hard to make absolute conclusions as course sets can change also.

I think in '98 Olympics they were using 198cm, and carving a lot. Sort of shaped. For the period. After that I'm not sure what happened. People might have gone a little nuts with shape and length. Like in slalom. 2003/4 gs got the 185cm/21m rule. 2007/8 27m and 65mm min width. Not sure on length.

http://www.tedligety.com/opinion/

 

[ScottB]

With 183 AX, Tyrolia PRD 12 w/o plate (both toe and heal adjustable).
I mostly keep it at +4, except back as much as to +2 if I want to emphasize a GS feel over ease and quickness.

With my friend's 183 AX, Tyrolia Attack2-13 AT Demo (AT = All Types of boot).
We use a +1 to +2 setting. (It's equally adjustable - more playful but otherwise equally fun feel).

I added the color because the AT version has a different plastic mold, roughly 1 cm taller than a regular, more common Attack2-13 Demo binding. This setup feels as if it is a cm or two more forward than the PRD 12 at equal mount setting, not sure why. It has about 3/4 cm greater height than the PRD 12, as I recall.)

That is really interesting about the bindings feeling different. Maybe its the height? I need to mount up a 183cm Laser AX and I have a Tyrolia PRD 12 binding and need a plate or dual plate (I assume you have the dual plate) and I have a non AT Tyrolia Attack2-13 demo binding. I was leaning towards the PRD 12 with a one piece plate. Which would you recommend and why?