Stockli Laser AX binding questions

[mike_m]

Hello, all,

I have a chance to pick up some Laser AXs at a good price but have a few binding questions.

Several sources have suggested mounting the binding at least 3-5mm forward to optimize performance. Yes or no?

Considering the Tyrolia Attack 13 demo binding. Is it noticeably heavier than the regular two-piece Attack 11, 12 or 13 bindings? Would it allow me to play with a more-forward mounting position?

One concern: Tyrolia recommends the Attack binding for wider skis (85 or wider in the waist due to the width of the AFD). A legitimate concern? A 78 brake is available. Too tight? Would the 85 be preferable?

I weigh only 155 lbs. and set my DIN to 6. Any other bindings I should be looking at (with available brakes narrow enough for the 78-waisted AX)?

Thanks!
Mike

 

[surfsnowgirl]

I have non demo attack 13s on my Laser AXs with a 78mm brake and never had an issue.

 

[JMD]

Hi Mike. I have read several reviews on the Stockli Laser AXs. Many of the posts suggest that they really like the mounting point to be 2.5 cm forward. That is the same mount point I like with my new Stockli Laser SL 170cm skis. I like the Head/Tyrolia PRD12 Bindings with a 4mm delta. The Attack Demo 13 Binding is another good choice with a 2mm delta. Both bindings easily adjust to fine tune your favorite balance point. The 78mm brake can be bent to fit but the 85mm brake would be a better fit.

 

[James]

What length Laser Ax? Also, 3-5mm? 3mm is about 1/8 inch.

 

[cosmoliu]

I have the Attack demo bindings on my AXs and have settled on about 1 cm forward. I haven't messed with position since the first week. The 78 mm brakes are just fine.

 

[Philpug]

Pivot is always a good choice.

 

[mike_m]

167 length.

 

[James]

Well the best thing would be to go find a demo that's easily moved and play with it.
2.5 cm, 1 inch, is significant on a 167 ski. The way you ski isn't like the way some others ski.

 

[HeluvaSkier]

Tyrolia Power Rail 14... Great binding in terms of retention and gives you plenty of fore/aft adjustment without the weight of a true 'demo' binding.

 

[Plai]

Have 167 w/ attack 13 demos on mark. So far, so good.

 

[PTskier]

I have Head PRX12 bindings on my Laser AX. They're on a rail and fully adjustable. I've tried them on the mark and 8 mm forward. It really feels about the same on groomers. I prefer them on the mark in soft snow. Much less than a cm and you won't feel any difference, and I expect to try these 1.2 cm, 3 notches, forward next winter. There are several very good binding systems on a rail, and any of these will let you find the position you like best. Head/Tyrolia is just one excellent choice among several. I don't think there are any bad bindings being made. Some are more suitable for certain skiers than others.

I like the 8 mm delta of the PRX. Others like less. It all relates to one's body structure, the boot length, the boot shaft angle, and personal preference. With Tyrolia Attack13 bindings I missed the heel height; I made 1/8", 3 mm, shims to raise the heels and preferred that. The bindings Stöckli sells with the skis are Salomon, always a good choice, tho' not on a rail. The color does match....

 

[mike_m]

Head/Tyrolia PRDs on the adjustable rail. Sounds like it might be the ticket. Thanks!

 

[PTskier]

I have a new partial set of PRD12 bindings with two 88 mm brakes. Missing is one heel piece and the rails. I'd really like to get these out of my shop.

 

[ski otter 2]

Hi Mike. I have read several reviews on the Stockli Laser AXs. Many of the posts suggest that they really like the mounting point to be 2.5 cm forward. That is the same mount point I like with my new Stockli Laser SL 170cm skis. I like the Head/Tyrolia PRD12 Bindings with a 4mm delta. The Attack Demo 13 Binding is another good choice with a 2mm delta. Both bindings easily adjust to fine tune your favorite balance point. The 78mm brake can be bent to fit but the 85mm brake would be a better fit.

Thanks for this thread!

I got 183 AXes this week, on a good deal, after a fun demo. And I would love some help here: I'm guessing this +2.5 mm. is for the 167 length, rather than the 175 or 183?

I'm motivated to be guessing here, because, as I said, I've finally gotten a chance to demo the 183 length AX and loved it, at least at around +1.5 and +2.0 using demo Attack 13s (though not so much at the suggested mount line, 0 to +2 mm.). So I'd be very interested in any feedback from you or others about mount point for this length, and using it with the Tyrolia/Head PRD 12 (Power Rail Diagonal binding), with its 4 mm delta.
(Note: I couldn't find demos of either maybe preferred shorter versions of the AX).

I've noticed several folks here and elsewhere have the 175 and have chosen around +1, plus or minus maybe three or four mm. So the 2.5 cm. you mention here confuses me slightly, unless it's for the 167 (and therefore a more short turn setting?) or the 183 (and therefore a more forward setting on a longer ski to make it more lively, turny and better in bumps and off piste?).

At this point, for the 183 I also am going to try the Tyrolia/Head PRD 12. It has a 78 or 85 brake, compared to the 90 mm of the Schizo or Marker Demo Griffin; and, for my boot, a forward range of +2.4 cm and backward range of the same, -2.4 cm., to play with. Think I'll mount it initially centered at +2.0, then try +2.4 and +1.6, etc., as the interval "slots" or "clicks" on this binding are 4 mm.

For me, the 4 mm. delta on the PRD 12 would likely make it a touch more responsive for short slalom-like turns, compared to flat or at 2 mm. delta, as you mention with the Attack13 demo, which I might like for longer or more relaxed and varied turns, as with moguls and off piste - in my own, subjective experiments with other narrow skis, at least. Again, would appreciate any comments, to at least widen my perspective here.
Thanks

 

[mike_m]

The feedback I have received suggest these skis are more sensitive to the mounting point the longer they are. The Head/Tyrolia PRDs on the rail (that allows easy adjustment of the forward/aft binding position) would seem to be an excellent way of getting them right in the sweet spot!

Best!
Mike

 

[ski otter 2]

The feedback I have received suggest these skis are more sensitive to the mounting point the longer they are. The Head/Tyrolia PRDs on the rail (that allows easy adjustment of the forward/aft binding position) would seem to be an excellent way of getting them right in the sweet spot!

Best!
Mike

Thanks. I'll be interested in what mount position(s) you end up with, Mike - and JMD also.

I spent much of today, Friday, on the new AX 183s. All told, this has been my third day on a version of the 183 ski.
I moved the bindings around fore-aft, but so far just to the settings mentioned below. The early results have surprised me:

On the 183 demos mounted with Attack 13 bindings (skier demoed lightly for most of this season):
Yes to +1.7 cm. and +2.1 cm. forward of line. Great turn feel. No downside to these moves.
No to +.1 cm and +.5 cm. More GS-like, but a bit sluggish or off.

On the new 183s mounted with Tyrolia PDR 12 bindings:
Sort of yes to +2.0 cm. and more enthusiastic yes to +2.4 cm. and +3.2 cm. For me, +3.2 cm. was best so far, including on steeper, uneven and mildly bumped up steeper terrain, such as I could access this late in the season. For now, I will keep these skis on +3.2, but will experiment further, especially even more forward. Also, I will definitely use different forward settings in different conditions, on different slopes. Fun.

For whatever reason(s), the Attack 13 ski had a different feel, more relaxed, and for me responded better to less forward mount settings than the PRD ski seemed to - again, for me.

The snow cover has deteriorated markedly today over Wednesday. This will probably be the last day this season I'll risk rock damage to such skis. I just had to give em a try.

Thanks for the advice, @mike_m, @James on another AX thread, and @JMD. Without JMD's suggestion of +2.5 being a consensus AX choice for some, not sure I'd have moved so far forward so quickly - if ever.

 

[mike_m]

Was able to buy new Laser AX 167s for $600 (!). Arriving this week. Now I just need to find some Head/Tyrolia PRDs.

A couple of questions:

Since my DIN is 6, would a PRD 11 be sufficient, or is the construction of heel/toepieces on the PRD 12 /14 superior?

Also, my understanding is that the Powerrrail track replaced the Railflex. Correct? Any advantage to the Freeflex Pro mount? How does the Freeflex Evo race binding differ from the regular PRDs mounted on a Powerrail? Does it need a plate under it?

Thanks!
Mike

 

[mike_m]

Was able to pick up new Head PRD 12s with Powerrail for $130. Thanks to all for the suggestions. Very helpful! To be continued next season!

Best!
Mike

 

[ski otter 2]

Not necessary now, and somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but the Freeflex Evos I have (14 & 16?) have a (largely) fixed toe (screws-into-different-plate-holes fixed), and only a tool-less moveable heal on their version of a rail; so you can apparently only rail adjust forward and back with the heal piece (for limited boot size changes). For fore-aft mount point, BC adjustment you have to go to moving the toe screws into different, more limited screw hole selections on the plate, depending on your choice of original plate mounting position. Not practical for the kind of versatile adjustment you want.

 

[mike_m]

That's what I was told, which is why I went with the PRD Powerrail (more and easier forward/back adjustment).