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California/Nevada Squaw Valley to discuss removing slur against Native Americans from California resort’s name.

raytseng

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Hilarity ensued. And that’s the story of how Nushagarak Creek got named on official topo maps. Some day I might tell the story about how I introduced myself to some Yupik people telling them to call me by their word for pubic hair.

LoL, great story!
Drift: I remember reading a similar article, I am paraphrasing the below and may be elaborating the details, but here goes.

The article described some behavioral psychologists running tests on isolated peoples that haven't contacted modern society. It was were rumored that this specific tribe didn't have any concept of the past only future; or they only count up to 5 and other very simplistic but unique behaviors unknown to developed modern humans.

So they went to investigate with science. They developed computerized test equipment and eye tracking with visual scenarios that could have quantitative results not based on words/culture/translations or other subjective observations . When the subject was shown simulations with an object disappearing behind or into things, the eye tracking was showing he wasn't predicting that the object would reappear as someone who had a concept of past might. When he was counting or evaluating rewards on the screens, it would be 1,2,3,4 5, many! and the magnitude of "many" wouldn't matter.

After several weeks of testing, and developing some really good data supporting these unique behaviors, they were getting excited that they had a novel finding to their research. But then one day doing the tests, they heard snickering from outside the hut, and found kids laughing at what was going on. With some investigation, they discovered turns out the tribe just volunteered the equivalent of the village idiot to do the the tests so they could get exchanged gifts/supplies for free but not waste the time doing the tests themselves. When the researchers regrouped and instead randomly picked subjects (with another batch of supplies for exchange) , the tests didn't show these unique behaviors across the tribe.
Not sure if there is a solid point to this story other than humor of the situation! Perhaps don't underestimate or believe you are so superior to others. Especially those you may consider to be "primitive" or inferior. Maybe that's the takeway!
 
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Philpug

Philpug

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I am not sure if it has been touched on or answered here. I ama assuming it was Squaw Valley, Squaw Creek, Squaw Peak before Squaw Valley Ski Area was created?
 

crgildart

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Oklahoma translates to home of red people... Inronically it was stolen from them when others figured out it was actually habitable. My college team name, "Sooners" refers to the folks who illegally cheated on the land rush to steal that land even earlier. Wondering how long before both those names get changed. I'm good with changing Oklahoma but keeping the white people criminals Sooner moniker.

Fighting Irish anybody??
Learned something new. Don't think Sooners was ever an ethnic slur nor is it specifically representative of oppression to a group. Origin refers to people who cheated on land rush order. Probably not much different than being called the Renegades. I'd be surprised if Sooners starts generating controversy. For now, you're pretty safe to load up on your favorite Sooners paraphernalia.

Edit: as far as Notre dame fighting Irish, what does that even mean or refer to? I've always thought it was a stupid name myself, but I'm not a Notre Dame fan.
my thoughs.
Sooners though doesnt really carry as much derogatory connotation in common use. Plus it sn't based on as strong of a class distinction like race, ethnicity, gender, ,socioeconomics, nationality, etc or identifiable characteristic for which a person doesn't get to choose that class might get stereotyped into.

Next is it really that derogatory? I think it morphed into being proud to be first/clever.
I dont think it is a thing that people assume oh you are born in Oklahoma, Oklahomians are untrustworthy cheater criminals..
So I'd say Sooners is way less problematic.

Nobody really can pick out an Oklahomian out. There really isnt an Oklahoma as a class or culture to generate a caricature of versus those stronger class distinctions mentioned above. If you were at an improv show and yell out "Do an Oklahomian" would the comedian know what are Oklahomian specific characteristics to satirize? (and would it be cheating at homesteading land grabs). Man that would be a extremely deep regional cut. Oklahomian as an ethnicity I dont think is a thing.

So to the point on your team name. Choosing criminals or "Fightin' X" a mascot, isnt inherently bad. For example if your school wants to call themselves Pirates that also is associating with straight up criminal description.
But it doesnt really accidentally target any realworld non-Pirates into being thought of as Pirates, only actual people who chose to be Pirates get associated with your stereotype/caricature of a Pirate (which could be positive or negative)

But if you were to associate a class like your ND Fighting Iish example, that extra addition of an identifiable real group targets real people that didn't choose it, and with a potentially derogatory association.
It's not Sooners that I think will be challenged soon.. It's OKLAHOMA that I think will be challenged soon. It's almost identical to "redskins". It's home of red skinned people...
 

Jack skis

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Not that this has much to do with the conversation here, but a Navajo housemate of mine in Albuquerque started calling me Bucket Face. I was not annoyed as it didn't sound as if he was suddenly any more dismissive of me, or in outright contempt, or anything. After a few weeks I finally asked him why the term Bucket Face? His answer was, bucket, pail, all the same. Made sense to me. Wonder what ever became of him? He rode rodeo bulls for weekend recreation, and it must have taken a toll.
 

Rainbow Jenny

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I remember when Chink Peak was only renamed Chinese Peak in Idaho (and the controversy) when I lived in SLC around the turn of the millennium. When I looked it up online this week, somehow I came across how Squaw Butte was also renamed Shadow Butte around the same time.

Any Idahoan or anyone with local knowledge to fill us in on the detail?
 

Après Skier

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If she were considered fully human, she'd be called a woman or female, not a squaw.
@LiquidFeet I had never previously considered how dehumanizing the term Squaw is... the name should definitely be changed. Olympic Valley as a nice ring to it. Or better yet, pick a name to pay homage rather than denigrates the the original inhabitants.
 

skibob

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It's not Sooners that I think will be challenged soon.. It's OKLAHOMA that I think will be challenged soon. It's almost identical to "redskins". It's home of red skinned people...
I think you are missing the point though. "Redskin" is a slur. Oklahoma seems to simply be descriptive***. The word "negro" still means "black" in Portuguese and Spanish, and that isn't the least bit offensive or likely to change. But "Negro" as a reference to a people is long gone and for good reason. Context is everything.

***IF "Oklahoma" has a history of offensive use, I am unaware of it. But my ignorance would be irrelevant if that is the case.
 

djetok

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Oklahoma translates to home of red people... Inronically it was stolen from them when others figured out it was actually habitable. My college team name, "Sooners" refers to the folks who illegally cheated on the land rush to steal that land even earlier. Wondering how long before both those names get changed. I'm good with changing Oklahoma but keeping the white people criminals Sooner moniker.

Fighting Irish anybody??
You are correct and I'm a poke so screw the land thieves. They actually have a forum in that name and its the most popular one for the walmart fans.
 

djetok

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It's not Sooners that I think will be challenged soon.. It's OKLAHOMA that I think will be challenged soon. It's almost identical to "redskins". It's home of red skinned people...
Doubtful. As a okie , oklahoma is the home of the 5 civilized tribes and th culture is very strong. We still do pow wows and all. Keep the liberal thinking out of oklahoma.
 

dbostedo

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James

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It's detected as a "media" source like YouTube and gets formatted by the platform. If you use the "link" feature and give it different text it will keep it from auto-formating as media. Like this:

No, “Oklahoma” doesn’t mean “red people”
Don’t see that on mobile. Just shameless plugs for their app or data sucking facebook, linkedin, logins. Medium is on the despised list.
Edit- you mean use the pugski link creator?
 

New2

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It's fascinating for me to hear various folks here saying they had no idea the name is offensive. I suppose that the sheer scarcity of Native Americans enrolled in a tribe and connected to their cultural heritage helps explain why there haven't been local voices raising awareness in a lot of the rest of the country.

Growing up in Phoenix, controversy over "Squaw Peak," a dominant landmark, park name, freeway, street name, hiking trail, etc. was definitely part of everyday conversation in the 90s and early 2000s. Phoenix is hardly a liberal/politically-correct bastion, but the persistent attempts to rename driven by the local Native American community kept building. And in 2003 when Lori Piestewa became the first US woman killed in the Iraq War and the first known Native American woman killed serving in the US military it was enough of a galvanizing moment to change the names (this was back when the war was relatively popular, and before Americans became numbed to the long lists of casualties).

Interestingly enough, I was in Gallup once with my wife visiting her sister and brother-in-law. I asked Lorrin if the locals (Navajo, Hopi, Zuni) were offended by the Washington Redskins football team name, he just pointed out the number of Native Americans wearing Redskins hats, shirts, etc.
Even when perceptions of a mascot are generally positive, rigorously-designed studies still demonstrate a causal linkage between stereotypical mascots and negative health outcomes: a concise review of the relevant scientific literature (though note that it is paid-for by the Oneida nation).

In many polls of Native Americans, a large majority don't find the Washington Redskins name offensive. But some Native Americans find it very offensive. So the question has been for a while now, do you respond to the minority that's offended? Or do you let the majority decide?
Many polls might be an exaggeration here, and part of the problem is that at least some of those polls set eligibility criteria to hear from many people with limited or no link to the lived experience of nations living under treaties with the US. Trying to follow "majority" rule is always going to be at least a bit problematic. But I think one of the most important points that keeps coming up in the current broader social dialogue is the moral responsibility for more of us, particularly those in positions of relative privilege, to speak up and provide that "majority" to support minority voices. I don't particularly fear the cops singling me out for mistreatment, nor am I take personal offense to various slurs... but it is important for me to speak out.

Whatever they change the name of the resort to, Squaw Peak is still there, as well as Squaw Creek. Is it OK to leave those named as is, even if the resort is renamed? That would likely require a legislative process, or Forest Service process.
In the Piestewa Peak case in Phoenix, the city and state changed the names in 2003, and the Feds finally followed in 2008 (US Board on Geographical Names--there are mechanisms short of legislation).
 

Average Joe

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Years ago my Grandmother had two Native Americans working for her. They lived at the Reno-Sparks Indian Colony. I asked one if she preferred Native American or Indian. She said she didn't care; the sign at the colony said Indian and she was fine with that.

Discussion on the subject is good and the name may change. On the other hand it may not be as offensive as some people think it is or should be.
During the 1991(?) World Series , the Atlanta Braves fans did the "Tomahawk Chop", and in those early politically correct times, some were offended, and demanded it to stop.
Not the full blooded Cherokee who was working for me at the time. He said he was honored by all of the sports teams who named themselves and their mascots after the most respected and feared Indian warriors.
He's since passed away but I think of him any time there's a call to remove any reference to native Americans because it's "offensive."
 

Rich McP

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I think you are missing the point though. "Redskin" is a slur. Oklahoma seems to simply be descriptive***. The word "negro" still means "black" in Portuguese and Spanish, and that isn't the least bit offensive or likely to change. But "Negro" as a reference to a people is long gone and for good reason. Context is everything.

***IF "Oklahoma" has a history of offensive use, I am unaware of it. But my ignorance would be irrelevant if that is the case.
United Negro College Fund
When I grew up the was NOTHING wrong with the word negro. It was THE proper word. It is all in the context and intent.
 

Popeye Cahn

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What’s your tribe’s word for that part of female anatomy? You could offer that up to SV/AM to use instead of squaw.

Do Choctaws use the word squaw in their language? I mean I’m not offended by Russian derogatory racist terms either, but that’s because I don’t speak Russian. And I’m caucasian.

Food for thought:

 

Tricia

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I think people get up in arms about a name. Squaw Valley is not offensive to me, I am not a squaw though. I am a card carrying Native American . View attachment 105202
Is this a case when some well meaning people think that it's the right thing to do for native americans even if native americans don't have it on their radar? :huh:
Pretty torn on this one myself. Obviously it’s all the talk in the local community so have gotten into some serious discussions with peeps on both sides of the fence in the past week or so.

I’ve kind of come to the conclusion that I’m personally too close to this one to have an unbiased opinion. I don’t really want to see the name changed because it was named** with no intention towards hate and I associate the word “Squaw” to one of my favorite places on earth. That being said I completely understand if it does need to change


** Native American Washoe people used the valley as a summer tribal ground before the 1849 California Gold Rush. When westward bound travelers first encountered the valley, they saw only women and children as most of the men were away hunting and so called it Squaw Valley
If nothing else, I'm learing a lot.
 

pais alto

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Food for thought:

Well, I learned something. I’m glad I found out about that before some white guy got pissed off at me.

Is this a case when some well meaning people think that it's the right thing to do for native americans even if native americans don't have it on their radar? :huh:
I think it’s more like just some native americans don’t have it on their radar. I’m aware of some Indians that it does bother, a lot. Like some European-Americans don’t mind being called Caucasian.
 
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pais alto

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And fwiw, I’d say you should probably never call a Native American woman a squaw. Unless you’re looking to piss her off. It could well be on their radar.
 

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