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LiquidFeet

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Some people get a special base structure put on in the spring to battle sticky snow. I've never done this. I've been worried it would shorten the life of my skis, if not the base itself then the metal edges. That structure needs to be replaced again before the next season, doesn't it? This is a New England skier talking here.... meaning early winter skiing is on man-made stuff. I'm imagining that the spring structure won't do well on the WROD. But not sure.

So how many seasons can a pair of skis withstand all this stone-grinding, putting spring structure on and taking it off? Actually, I just did the math. I tend to get my daily drivers stone-ground sometime early season, and that's it. Once a year. If I also get spring structure put on, that's only one extra grind. Maybe it's OK to do two grinds a year. But then I keep my skis forever. I'm not a two-seasons then replace them skier.

Discussion? Who does a spring base and how does that work for you?
 

raytseng

Making fresh tracks
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I think its more of did your seasons worth of skiing wear down your standard structure so theres no stucture at all when you hit the sticky suction stuff.
 

Erik Timmerman

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It really makes a difference. I used to have a pair of FX94s that I had an aggressive spring structure on. I really didn’t notice it that much in the winter either. I may have had to skate a little more across the flats but it was not a big deal.
 

trailtrimmer

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Everytime I ask for it I get talked out of it. Because of the need to take it out later. Yes, a deep structure will make skiing on cold snow difficult. Dedicated spring ski is the way to go.

My guy suggests I don't do it either, prefers to see fresh all around structure over deeper spring structure on race/carving skis.

My friends Shaggy's have a super rough finish on the base, they fly in wet snow even though it looks like the factory finishes them with a chainsaw.
 

cantunamunch

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Discussion? Who does a spring base and how does that work for you?

We do both - dedicated spring structure skis that only get warm wax and all-round skis that get fresh general structure,(usually light diagonal over 15 groove/cm linear) once a season. Herself doesn't even notice which is which anymore.

FWIW I have learned to stay away from 'spring' miracle waxes. Exactly none of them perform as well as an enormously warm-wax saturated base, and the fresh general skis get HF hard wax.

That last might sound counterintuitive but we get a lot of manmade/natural/manmade transitions and fresh/old/fresh transitions and hard wax is the way to avoid *that* grabbiness.

I also have @smoothrides ' old Holmenkol Trimaxx. Works great on snowblades and things.
 
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crgildart

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+1 to structure on the rock ski/early/late season skis. Had some old GSRs done that way. Definitely noticed the difference. And, you can counter it some with cold wax in the grooves of you really wanted to go with a one ski quiver.
 

cantunamunch

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Do *not* get coarse linear as a spring structure or you will stuff up your edging. Some time ago I posted a graphic to explain the problem:

full


LSP1 and LSP2 and so forth act as edges in spring snow - straight ski edges!
 

James

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I once had a shop that decided to give me a linear structure in the winter. Solid medium depth. Sounded like a zipper when hockey sliding.

For spring structures is it better to not have the edge blanking that has become all the rage?
 

Marker

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I've wondered about this structure/wax question as well, but like the idea of a dedicated spring ski with deeper structure. Excuses for more skis! Does a spring structure work well for early-early season? I'm thinking for Killington when I finally retire and have the time to make this really worthwhile.
 

crgildart

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Cross post from "gloppy" thread but just rubbing on some warm weather wax with no corking, no buffing, no scraping, just leaving it bumpy works pretty well for a few runs.
 

Primoz

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Personally I wouldn't really go into coarse and deep structure on alpine skis. For xc skis, of course there's nothnig else that works, but for alpine... Deep and especially course structure makes skis harder to turn, so for me personally it's not really thing to do on alpine. Sure in racing things are even a bit more touchy, and every alpine ski that comes out of grind gets polished a bit to lose this "sharp" structure that makes it harder to turn, but even for recreational skiing that deep course structure that works so good on xc skis is too much for my taste.
 

Steve

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I have a skivisions tool which comes with a medium and a coarse stone. I use the coarse stone in the Spring, I have no idea how much it helps, but it doesn't dig that deep into the base that a medium structure in the Winter can't erase it.
 

Sibhusky

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I had a coarse spring structure put on some old skis years ago and they were scary to get to turn. They just wanted to go straight and that was it. I understand a non-linear pattern will counteract that problem, but most shops around here even resist the coarser structure let alone adding patterns!

I have the Ski Visions tool and just make sure that there is structure everywhere and it's not vanishing. Lately I've been using new skis and haven't really been mucking around with their nice new factory structure yet. I feel like they will get faster next season as they get more saturated and hit with the SkiVisions on a regular basis. I've been feeling reduced glide, but not complete braking to any extent. And my old skis were the same. I can feel the grabbing, but I haven't gone face first yet, nor am I having to walk. But it doesn't mean I like it. Fluoro hasn't lasted long enough through the day to help when the grabbing starts. My solution is not to ski those areas after 11 AM. :cool:
 

Steve

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I'm sure you'll get more detailed and thorough replies from others, but the short answer is that if the skis were completely smooth and flat on the bottoms, suction would be created with the snow. Think of two panes of wet glass pressed against each other.

So when skis are stone ground, the stones create microscopic grooves in the ptex so the water (snow) can run off the skis.

A linear structure is straight parallel lines down the length of the skis. There are other patterns.
Wide/deep grooves are spring structure.
 
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LiquidFeet

LiquidFeet

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Do *not* get coarse linear as a spring structure or you will stuff up your edging. Some time ago I posted a graphic to explain the problem:

full


LSP1 and LSP2 and so forth act as edges in spring snow - straight ski edges!

Feeling grain-dense at the moment. I'm ready to commit a particular pair of skis to spring skiing. But....

1. I get that I should NOT get linear structure.
2. I get that I should get edge-to-edge structure without that flat part along the outer edges.
3. But if not linear, what kind of structure should I get?
4. Which machine does the shop need to own to provide such structure?
 
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François Pugh

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Depends where you are skiing. Deep linear structure is fine if your carving arc-2-arc, but not so good for non-carved short radius turns. Here in eastern Canada, you are better off using short radius turns and not carving arc-2-arc in mogul runs, but if you are not skiing the moguls then go ahead and get a deep linear grind for spring only ski.

Heck, expand the quiver, and get a deep linear grind on your spring carving ski (edit, I mean skis), and deep patterned grind on the spring mogul skis.
 

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