eBike Specialized Turbo Creo

[martyg]

That's kinda what I thought... One guy didn't even seem warmed up, so lazy start of a lazy day?!? Another, just tooling along, just at slow pace. FWIW ... I'm always surprised if I pass someone, especially if they appear to be younger, fitter.
I'm riding against myself usually, and time/strava tells me I'm starting to lose ;(

It goes to if you are "training", or "riding".

For example, yesterday I had an easy three hour ride. Today was an hour weight training, two easy hours, followed by 2 x 1 x 7 at max intensity. If I allowed my ego to over ride my training plan and chased someone yesterday, I would not be able to go hard today. Both max intensity and easy days have their place. You need to overload your body for growth to occur. If you always train at a moderate level, you will never be anything but moderate in ability.

 

[NZRob]

I don't understand the rationale of ultra high-end e-bikes, especially road

 

[NZRob]

I'm not that good of a road rider and have passed several on sworks on my comp/expert roubaix.
That said, I've been passed by younger/stronger on allez and secteurs - aluminum framed version to my carbon frame.
I do like the vibration dampening of the carbon frame ... Numb hands otherwise.
Not sure what another 8K will give me in a "better" ride. Doubt it, by itself, will improve my conditioning.
.

A comparison of two riders on different bikes is only relevant if the two riders are the same though.

Speaking of your Roubaix, you enjoying it? I got a Cannondale Synapse Hi Mod a couple of years ago and while I like it I keep wondering if Future Shock would look after my old wrist/elbow/shoulder injuries better.

 

[Plai]

Speaking of your Roubaix, you enjoying it? I got a Cannondale Synapse Hi Mod a couple of years ago and while I like it I keep wondering if Future Shock would look after my old wrist/elbow/shoulder injuries better.

Mine is a used 2014 Roubaix sl4 expert acquired in 2015, a couple of years before future shock was available.
Friends have later models 2016 (disc) and 2017 (future shock). I haven't tried future shock yet. I can't believe how much heavier are the later models. My previous bikes were Allez (2005) and Tarmac (2009). All acquired used after 2011 when I started riding.

Love the Roubaix's endurance geometry. Love how light it is. Love the dampening of carbon. I don't put near enough miles on each year and don't feel compelled to "upgrade". Every couple of years I consider a steel bike for better/smoother feel.
My rides are only 30-40 miles (2-2.5 hr) and sometimes with 1500ft-ish climbs. It climbs well. It'll bomb downhill faster than I'm willing. The cornering is smooth vs the more nervous Allez/tarmac geometry.

But, apparently I'm willing to window shop and ask silly questions to change my mind.

 

[Jersey Skier]

I don't understand the rationale of ultra high-end e-bikes, especially road

What's not to understand? I don't understand my wife's need for expensive jewelry, but it makes her happy. Riding nice bikes make me happy. If I could afford it I'd own a Singer 911 and I'm sure many people wouldn't understand that yet there is a several year wait to get one..

 

[Erik Timmerman]

Have you guys seen the Phil Liggett ad they are showing during the Tour? It's not quite as good as Grandma vs Sagan, but it's pretty good.

 

[Primoz]

I can buy a Yamaha R6 for that and do this with the same amount of physical effort...

That's exactly what I say for all mopeds that are sold at insane prices... for emtb with shitty equipment 5000eur is insane price for me already, not even going into $17.000 range. If you want motor, you can get much cheaper, much faster and all in all much more fun bike then $17.000 worth Specialized moped.

 

[Ron]

That hasn't changed. People just think the markup is a lot higher than it really is.

I thought the margins were even tighter than that.

 

[François Pugh]

That's exactly what I say for all mopeds that are sold at insane prices... for emtb with shitty equipment 5000eur is insane price for me already, not even going into $17.000 range. If you want motor, you can get much cheaper, much faster and all in all much more fun bike then $17.000 worth Specialized moped.

For less than that you can get https://www.suzuki.ca/en/2019-hayabusa 186 mph top speed and quarter mile times in high nine seconds (9.7 s) range. Much more fun for the money. Admittedly you are less likely to lose your driver's license with the specialized turbo-creo.

 

[scott43]

For less than that you can get https://www.suzuki.ca/en/2019-hayabusa 186 mph top speed and quarter mile times in high nine seconds (9.7 s) range. Much more fun for the money. Admittedly you are less likely to lose your driver's license with the specialized turbo-creo.

Yeah but it's like riding a couch...

 

[scott43]

I thought the margins were even tighter than that.

Nah.. Well, I dunno about now..but it was 40% markup on complete bikes..100% on parts and accessories. Bikes though are actually somewhat tighter because the costs to sell it are higher..for instance, you have to buy them in the fall and warehouse them in the winter/spring. Then you have to assemble them. So there is some extra expense whereas parts and accessories you just warehouse for a short time and sell.

 

[Jersey Skier]

Nah.. Well, I dunno about now..but it was 40% markup on complete bikes..100% on parts and accessories. Bikes though are actually somewhat tighter because the costs to sell it are higher..for instance, you have to buy them in the fall and warehouse them in the winter/spring. Then you have to assemble them. So there is some extra expense whereas parts and accessories you just warehouse for a short time and sell.

Maybe 40% on a $400 bike. Definitely not on a $10k bike. Those margins suck.

 

[Erik Timmerman]

100% on parts and accessories.

HAHA, more like 5% on parts. You can often actually buy them online for less than wholesale.

 

[scott43]

HAHA, more like 5% on parts. You can often actually buy them online for less than wholesale.

Yeah, I dunno about now..internet probably changed some of that. But when we booked parts orders in the fall we got good margins on that stuff..tires we paid $11 for we'd sell at $19 or $20. Special ordering mid-season we didn't do as well on those parts, and it depended on the parts as well. It was a very arcane, guarded secrecy project..those wholesale numbers, especially booking order numbers were very hush hush. I did love getting Oakley gear for 50% off less 10%.

I have to add that if you think your LBS is ripping you off and getting rich, you're likely wrong. There is a lot of overhead and you have to work hard to make money. The shop guys aren't well paid. It's a really tough business and unfortunately the pressure and grind of working in the business can really kill your interest in cycling. It's worse in cold climates especially if you can't do ski very well either.. I loved it and hated it...

 

[scott43]

Maybe 40% on a $400 bike. Definitely not on a $10k bike. Those margins suck.

That was list..reality was less..I think you are actually in the business still so your intel is more up to date than mine for sure. I think if we actually made 30% on the price alone that was good. Then you factor in the acutal costs and it doesn't look as good. And that's why we have white shoes and different sock lengths every few years..

 

[Ron]

seems like a 10-15% discount off list off a complete bike is typically the best you will find and it reasonable,

 

[martyg]

That was list..reality was less..I think you are actually in the business still so your intel is more up to date than mine for sure. I think if we actually made 30% on the price alone that was good. Then you factor in the acutal costs and it doesn't look as good. And that's why we have white shoes and different sock lengths every few years..

Margins are not that simple. A lot depends on where you are in the supplier's food chain - are you a Tier 1 shop? What does your early season buy look like? And now that is taking delivery in October so suppliers can get the receivable on the books. Coop also plays into it, and how much you support the brand.

All that being said, on high-end bikes, with the three major brands (and they tend to have a more favorable margin structure), rack rate for margin is something less than 30 points.

 

[Philpug]

All that being said, on high-end bikes, with the three major brands (and they tend to have a more favorable margin structure), rack rate for margin is something less than 30 points.

And that is before shipping AND mechanics time to build bike. And yes, it is not just taking some cardboard off and slapping the pedals on...doing that is kinda like expecting a ski to ski well out of the box...they need to be tuned.

 

[scott43]

seems like a 10-15% discount off list off a complete bike is typically the best you will find and it reasonable,

At that they're not making that much on low-end bikes, if anything. Warehousing, assembly, floor space. It all costs money. It also depends on how you build the bike..I used to completely disassemble bikes over $1k and start from scratch...if you just throw it together you can do them in 20-30 mins. Have pity on your LBS..they're trying.

 

[martyg]

And that is before shipping AND mechanics time to build bike. And yes, it is not just taking some cardboard off and slapping the pedals on...doing that is kinda like expecting a ski to ski well out of the box...they need to be tuned.

Bikes are getting more and more sophisticated. We invest considerably in flying our wrenches to clinics.