Softgoods Sustainability

[Wasatchman]

...did you check the expiration date on the øøø tags? All kidding aside isn't that the point of this sustainability thing, use it or find someone who can?

If people are using their hardshells 20-plus years, I would think there is a lot more low hanging fruit to worry about as far as sustainability goes. You'd feel less concerned about hardshells even if it is made from man-made, non-recycled material.

 

[Analisa]

@Wasatchman - totally depends on the membrane, care, and use. There are 2 different materials used in membranes, one really susceptible to oil & dirt, the other oleophobic. Plus abrasion, sunscreen, and bug spray wear on both. The life expectancy of a hardshell will vary a lot based on the construction and use. I could see my ski jacket lasting a long time since it’s been 4 years, no signs of wetting out, not exposed to much dirt, oil, sunscreen, bug spray, or abrasion and only worn for a few months out of the year vs. my hardshell that sees a lot of all of those issues as it gets worn all year round for touring days, alpine climbing, hiking and 3 months of wet weather commuting.

 

[Wasatchman]

@Wasatchman - totally depends on the membrane, care, and use. There are 2 different materials used in membranes, one really susceptible to oil & dirt, the other oleophobic. Plus abrasion, sunscreen, and bug spray wear on both. The life expectancy of a hardshell will vary a lot based on the construction and use. I could see my ski jacket lasting a long time since it’s been 4 years, no signs of wetting out, not exposed to much dirt, oil, sunscreen, bug spray, or abrasion and only worn for a few months out of the year vs. my hardshell that sees a lot of all of those issues as it gets worn all year round for touring days, alpine climbing, hiking and 3 months of wet weather commuting.

Fair enough. I'm surprised my ski jacket has lasted so long. And I see few people on the hill with jackets that old.

A lot of people I know replace their jackets well before they need to though, because something better comes along. They want something new, get sucked in by the new, better, more breathable materials, etc.

Brings up a point. The mindset of upgrading all the time is something I think is really important and something that seems to be getting worse and not better.

Appliances, TVs etc are all upgraded much more frequently now versus 30 years ago. When I was a child, you kept a TV 10 years minimum and often 20 years. Now people are changing TVs every 5 because of new technology.

Cell phones are horrible for the environment, way worse than a hardshell jacket. Probably worse than 20 hardshell jackets. Yet people are constantly upgrading those, and every time you do you are throwing away the camera, etc. that is built in with it. Horrible.

So a big part of the equation is to somehow make it cool, etc to hold on to your stuff for a long time rather than always seeking out the newest, shiniest version of with thinking about more sustainable materials. How many of those people buying a new fleece, etc with more sustainable, recyclable materials actually even need a new fleece?

So in that sense companies like Apple are horrible for the environment. But they get a free pass. Cell phones, etc. seem untouchable.

I think our society is doing a better job thinking about sustainable materials, but a way worse job as far as keeping stuff longer.

 

[EricG]

It also seems to vary so much between brands. I still have a Seirra Designs 3L shell from 2001-2002 that I kept for Mtn biking, its going to get retired this year. It was my primary hard shell for skiing and exploration around the bridgers and Tetons, its got stains, repaired rips yet still keeps me dry. It has a lot of miles on it and gets washed every year and treated with TX Direct. The inside laminate is still attached to the fabric and has worn awesome. But I had a 2 year old Marmot 2L shell that had the laminate separate from the shell and Marmot was lackluster about warrantying it. My wife and I are primarily buying pieces from Patagonia at this point as any Warrenty claim I have made has been no-questions-asked. We are also at a financial point in our lives where we can have shells for just winter or summer which allows the stuff to last much longer. Not to mention I prefer a heavier shell in the winter and a lighter shell in the summer for hiking, ect...


Items like cell phone, tablets and laptops are the an awesome example of items that people routinely upgrade more often they need. Not to mention many people fail to dispose of these items properly. Fortunately some companies are starting to offer recycling programs for these items, but I'm willing to guess very few consumers will properly dispose of these items. When I replaced my MacBook last year I struggled to find a place that would properly recycle it. I ended up taking the battery out and sending it back to apple for their recycling program. The rest of it went to the electronic recycling program for the state. I pulled the battery myself as they local place didn't have a lithium recycling program.

 

[DanoT]

My wife and I are primarily buying pieces from Patagonia at this point as any Warrenty claim I have made has been no-questions-asked.

AFAIK, Patagonia is the only outdoor focused clothing company that is still owned and operated by the founding couple. They have a very strong environmental commitment so if researching enviro/recycling status of every garment that you might purchase is just too tedious, then going with Patagonia is a good solution.

Patagonia is also one of the best kids clothing manufacturers because they put all the adult materials and features into the kids clothing. This makes kids clothing more expensive than others but it is also more long lasting and commands a high price when selling used. Also, Patagonia is a very good brand to look for if you are interested in eventually having hand-me-downs or even if you are buying used kids clothing.

 

[EricG]

Patagonia is also one of the best kids clothing manufacturers because they put all the adult materials and features into the kids clothing. This makes kids clothing more expensive than others but it is also more long lasting and commands a high price when selling used. Also, Patagonia is a very good brand to look for if you are interested in eventually having hand-me-downs or even if you are buying used kids clothing.

Exactly. Almost all of our kids clothes is from Patagonia and TNF. I was able to get TNF for cheap for the past few years, the kids wear it for a year and my wife sells it to other mom's for their kids the next year. Effectively costing us almost nothing and works out great since the stuff holds up well. We are moving from TNF to Patagonia right now, so next year she will sell off the Patagonia stuff to buy new stuff. The kids new Patagonia stuff should be here in another week or so, which is good since she has just finished selling off last years winter gear. I do wish their Nano puffs had come in already since it was 26F here this morning.

 

[neonorchid]

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but hell will freeze over before there's not some sort of hardshell jacket in my closet)

It
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My wife and I are primarily buying pieces from Patagonia at this point

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if researching enviro/recycling status of every garment that you might purchase is just too tedious, then going with Patagonia is a good solution.

...you can relax now, "100% of our waterproof shells are now made with recycled materials and Fair Trade Certified™ sewn, without sacrificing our standards in performance or durability."
https://www.patagonia.com/shell-yea...utm_campaign=100719_shell+ya_a&ett=1559164409

 

[neonorchid]

Patagonia’s Entire Waterproof Shell Lineup Now Made With Recycled Materials

 

[pete]

With Halloween coming and this topic, BBC has article on cheap costumes and within the suggestion to make or reuse one's own.



https://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/50094278

 

[LegacyGT]

Brings up a point. The mindset of upgrading all the time is something I think is really important and something that seems to be getting worse and not better.

In just about every category, the most sustainable option available is the one you already own.