Softgoods Sustainability

[Analisa]

Not to be too snarky but the most Eco brand is wearing that old faded jacket another season or making do with those pants woth a stain or small rip. Duct tape and dirtbagging> fanciest greenwash marketing.

I know some brands really do have their heart in it but never forget they need to sell new product.

I know tough message on a site full of gearheads and that depends on commercial advertisers/ sponsors.....

Totally agree - and made the same note in my original post. For clarification, this thread was a new home for a conversation on pants recommendations to specific questions about recycled polyester. Recycled fabric is far from a holistic picture of the production footprint, or the garment's overall footprint when you take into consideration customer utilization & lifespan, number of wears per laundering, and care methods.

I personally prefer gear tape or patches over duct tape since it can go through the wash, which is nice for down & waterproof pieces. Plus they’ve got flair.

 

[Popeye Cahn]

^ Yes, I think wringing out as much usage as you can out of gear is the way to go. Whether it is bought new or used, making it go the distance is my mantra with many things and I also try to limit my consumption as well. That said, the sloughing off of poly fibers through usage is something that is hard to ignore :-/

 

[EricG]

Can we shift topics to responsibly sourced down and the treatments used to prevent the down from wetting?

 

[neonorchid]

Can we shift topics to responsibly sourced down and the treatments used to prevent the down from wetting?

https://blisterreview.com/podcasts/what-youre-wearing-pt-3-down-ep-64

 

[Analisa]

@EricG sure thing. All down is a byproduct of the meat industry. As the blister podcast mentions, RDS down is only plucked after the animal is slaughtered and never uses down from force-fed animals in foie gras production or super cramped farms. Patagonia started the initiative in 2007, and was the industry standard by the time I had a real big-girl paycheck to shop with. Since then, it's been really neat to see adoption pick up with more casual wear and home goods brands, like Uniqlo, 32 Degrees, and Ikea. I run a pretty big women's outdoor group in the PNW and I've definitely seen women be down-shamed after raving about a Costco puffer, and sometimes those purchases are driven by affordability. It definitely gave credit to the notion that conscious consumerism can get really elitist. (Ironically, since wealth and carbon footprint move together in lockstep). It's exciting to see RDS jackets dip all the way down to a $30 price point, where some consumers don't feel like they can't afford ethical choices. I'm sure as more and more producers join the service, it's creating economies of scale and allowing lower-margin brands to start adopting.

In terms of hydrophobic down, most manufacturers don't share exactly what chemicals are used in the down treatment, except that they don't include PFCs like your traditional outerwear DWR would. It extends the life of the down, especially if you live in a damp climate (or you're like me and end up sweating in your puffy while trying combat a Reynauds moment). It does really impact the compressibility, though, so some brands like the down pros at Feathered Friends are staunchly against them. I went with a belay parka that's hydrophobic down & Pertex fabrications for the face and liner fabric and it's crazy how much larger it is when it's packed down compared to my Cerium LT midweight.

 

[Tricia]

Since we're talking about down and how its harvested, perhaps its a good time to talk about the differences between natural materials, like down and real fur vs man made like primaloft, life loft, and synthetic fur.

First fur:
While working at a high end store a few years ago, we had several jackets with removable fur that was tagged as SAGA fur.
I actually did some research at the time so that I could talk to customers intelligently about it and found that there is a real reason to use real fur. In a conversation with a close friend who does expeditions to the north and south pole, he reiterated how important real fur is on the hood of his jacket that he wears in sub zero temperatures. Real fur protects the face from frost bite, where imitation fur draws moisture and creates a hazard in such a climate. The question is, are you looking for a fur barrier for that kind of climate or are you looking for fashion? If fashion is your goal, then synthetic may be your best option.

Insulation:
Are you cold or are you wet? Down is the most amazing warmth level you can get as long as you stay dry. When down gets wet, it doesn't do well. You either need a waterproof membrane that assures your down stays dry, or you my want to consider a different type of insulation. This is where Primaloft comes in. Primaloft and products using the Primaloft technology have the ability to keep you warm when the material is wet.

 

[DanoT]

When it comes to recycling paper there are limits to the amount of times recycled paper can continue to be recycled in to paper. So I am wondering if there are any limits to recycling recycled synthetic fabrics?

 

[dovski]

Thanks Analisa, this is a super informative thread. I now need to reevaluate my brand choices as OR and Arc'Teryx are two of my go to brands, I also have a bunch of Patagonia and Smartwool but all my jackets and shells are form the first two brands.

I did not see Spyder on your list curious as to where they fit in on the spectrum?

 

[dovski]

Just curious as to what everyone's thoughts are on the new used gear program from Arc'Teryx https://rocksolid.arcteryx.com/about
Sounds like they will repair, refurbish and then resell used Arc'Teryx gear. Would be great if they combined this with sustainable practices. This sounds similar to what Patagonia does.

 

[EricG]

Just curious as to what everyone's thoughts are on the new used gear program from Arc'Teryx https://rocksolid.arcteryx.com/about
Sounds like they will repair, refurbish and then resell used Arc'Teryx gear. Would be great if they combined this with sustainable practices. This sounds similar to what Patagonia does.

Arc’Teryx, Patagonia and now North Face have programs to refurbish and resell used gear. TNF (VF) received a fair amount of pressure of the years for their overseas labor practices, I really hope they have turned it around and are making positive strides.

 

[Analisa]

Just curious as to what everyone's thoughts are on the new used gear program from Arc'Teryx https://rocksolid.arcteryx.com/about
Sounds like they will repair, refurbish and then resell used Arc'Teryx gear. Would be great if they combined this with sustainable practices. This sounds similar to what Patagonia does.

Patagonia & Arcteryx’s are the same. It’s run by a company called Yerdle Recommerce, which does the site platform, evaluation, repairs, listing, shipping, etc. REI used is run on the same platform. I’ve had good experiences. Cheaper than eBay or Poshmark, but much more reliable.

Yerdle’s backed by Tin Shed/Patagonia, so I was surprised to see so many other brands adopt it so quickly.

 

[dovski]

Patagonia & Arcteryx’s are the same. It’s run by a company called Yerdle Recommerce, which does the site platform, evaluation, repairs, listing, shipping, etc. REI used is run on the same platform. I’ve had good experiences. Cheaper than eBay or Poshmark, but much more reliable.

Yerdle’s backed by Tin Shed/Patagonia, so I was surprised to see so many other brands adopt it so quickly.

It would be great if they could copy them with sustainable fabrics … etc.

 

[Fishbowl]

So, what is the most eco responsible way for me to "downsize" the huge collection of never to be worn again ski and snowboard gear that my family has gathered over the years. Goodwill?

 

[Dwight]

Patagonia & Arcteryx’s are the same. It’s run by a company called Yerdle Recommerce, which does the site platform, evaluation, repairs, listing, shipping, etc. REI used is run on the same platform. I’ve had good experiences. Cheaper than eBay or Poshmark, but much more reliable.

Yerdle’s backed by Tin Shed/Patagonia, so I was surprised to see so many other brands adopt it so quickly.

Thank you for this information. I might actually purchase used Patagonia and give it a try.

 

[Dwight]

So, what is the most eco responsible way for me to "downsize" the huge collection of never to be worn again ski and snowboard gear that my family has gathered over the years. Goodwill?

Don't know about best but my girls love getting nice Patagonia gear at Goodwill for next to nothing.

 

[Lauren]

So, what is the most eco responsible way for me to "downsize" the huge collection of never to be worn again ski and snowboard gear that my family has gathered over the years. Goodwill?

Not 100% sure if it's the "best" but I would think any way to get it into the hands of someone that will wear it (provided it's not so used that it's deemed unwearable). Goodwill, Salvation Army, Soles4Souls, Coats for Kids, local church donations...

 

[Analisa]

When it comes to recycling paper there are limits to the amount of times recycled paper can continue to be recycled in to paper. So I am wondering if there are any limits to recycling recycled synthetic fabrics?

Depends on a few factors. PET can be recycled mechanically, where plastic's chipped, melted, and pushed through spinnerets. If the input is already polyester, the recycling process doesn't degrade the strength as much as when the inputs are soda bottle types of waste. (Hence why for garments where abrasion resistance is important, Patagonia either blends with virgin polyester or jacks the denier to the moon). Mechanical recycling constitutes the vast majority of recycled polyester. Some are chemically recycled, where PET chips are reduced down to monomers through depolymerization. There are a few methods, all well outside my area of expertise, but the end result is supposed to be indistinguishable from virgin poly. I believe most processes can be completed more than mechanical recycling, and I've even seen some news that there's fiber-to-fiber (ie. infinite cycles) coming to the market in the next year or two, which is backed by H&M.

 

[Analisa]

@dovski Spyder surprised me - they're using something recycled in roughly 25-30% of their pieces (mainly Primaloft Eco. By the numbers, theirs is probably a little inflated since a bigger percentage of their selection is insulated). They're mainly using it in gloves, kids pieces, and midlayers, which tend to use less fabric (or thread, for midlayers) & tend to have more lax demands for durability. Interested to see where they go with it.

Now, whether they do right by their customers with adequate product information and competitive MSRPs is a different conversation.

 

[Wasatchman]

First fur:
While working at a high end store a few years ago, we had several jackets with removable fur that was tagged as SAGA fur.
I actually did some research at the time so that I could talk to customers intelligently about it and found that there is a real reason to use real fur. In a conversation with a close friend who does expeditions to the north and south pole, he reiterated how important real fur is on the hood of his jacket that he wears in sub zero temperatures. Real fur protects the face from frost bite, where imitation fur draws moisture and creates a hazard in such a climate. The question is, are you looking for a fur barrier for that kind of climate or are you looking for fashion? If fashion is your goal, then synthetic may be your best option.

I'm guessing most of the Canada Goose jackets you see people wearing are fashion rather than polar expedition. Unfortunately, Canada Goose probably doesn't feel like they can make faux version because then they couldn't market the coat as suitable for polar expedition, which ironically might devalue the fashion component that drives most of their coat sales these days.

Down coats have been a fashion trend in Auckland, New Zealand now for a while. I find it a bit ridiculous because 1) Auckland doesn't get all that cold in the first place, and 2) there is a lot of wet weather where down doesn't do as well to your point.

Fashion is a funny thing.

 

[dovski]

@dovski Spyder surprised me - they're using something recycled in roughly 25-30% of their pieces (mainly Primaloft Eco. By the numbers, theirs is probably a little inflated since a bigger percentage of their selection is insulated). They're mainly using it in gloves, kids pieces, and midlayers, which tend to use less fabric (or thread, for midlayers) & tend to have more lax demands for durability. Interested to see where they go with it.

Now, whether they do right by their customers with adequate product information and competitive MSRPs is a different conversation.

You know it is funny, until your post I never really thought about ski gear and sustainability that much, I kind of just assumed that brands like OR and Arc'Teryx cared about the environment similar to Patagonia … essentially my three favorite brands. A big factor for me was always functionality and customer service something that Patagonia sets the standard for and other aspire to match with OR coming the closest IMHO. Will definitely think differently about this going forward. Thanks so much for all the information and education in this thread.