New England Smugglers Notch

[scott43]

we lived in Grafton VT for a long time and liked easy skiing Okemo and quirky Bromley the best.

Thank you. That's great info.

 

[Mike Thomas]

Smugg's has some of the very best advanced ski terrain in eastern North America. Yup, the lifts are slow and cold, but it's basically a GIANT Mad River Glenn (that get's more snow). The skiing kicks the sh!t out of Jay, which might be THE most over rated ski areas in the country. 20 years ago the tree skiing at Jay was amazing, now it is so over skied by unskilled folks that it CAN'T be skied by a good skier. The grooming is mediocre and the groomed runs pretty much suck. The mountain is only steep for the first third then a long flat run-out... but sure, they'll take Canadian cash and they have a water park (that is mostly urine... but maybe you're into that?).

It's no Stowe, but... It's no Stowe. If you know what I mean.

 

[scott43]

they have a water park (that is mostly urine... but maybe you're into that?).

WTF?

 

[LiquidFeet]

Jay Peak Water Park

 

[x10003q]

Smuggs has great terrain but beware of long lift lines and long lift rides. You should look at Gore Mtn in North Creek, NY. It is never crowded, has a huge amount of terrain, a gondola and 2 HSQs plus a bunch of FGQs and FGTs.. There is no slopeside housing and the town is sleepy. The housing prices are usually less than Vermont. Gore is closer than Smuggs for you. There is a water park 30 minutes south of Gore in Lake George if your kids need a break from skiing.
https://www.goremountain.com/

 

[scott43]

I've been to Gore..actually a decent mountain. We are going to get killed on the dollar and we are pretty much stuck (or strongly prefer..) ski in/ski out. I think we may be Tremblant, Orford or Sutton. I think that's our narrow list..

 

[mdf]

... and we are pretty much stuck (or strongly prefer..) ski in/ski out. ..

I agree, with young kids ski in/ski out is the key to an enjoyable experience. (I'm not sure I remember how old your kids are, but I'm thinking they are pretty young.)

 

[Crank]

Smuggs does have great terrain and lots of ski in ski out condos. 5K sounds kind of high to me though. The old, slow double chairs do make for long lines weekends and holidays. Are you going during a US holiday week or on a Canadian school break? Burke might be an option for you for reasonable ski in ski out.

 

[scott43]

I agree, with young kids ski in/ski out is the key to an enjoyable experience. (I'm not sure I remember how old your kids are, but I'm thinking they are pretty young.)

Yeah 3 and a bit and what will be an 8 month old. The younger one kinda put the wrench in the works. So just so my wife and I can switch off easily.

 

[scott43]

Smuggs does have great terrain and lots of ski in ski out condos. 5K sounds kind of high to me though. The old, slow double chairs do make for long lines weekends and holidays. Are you going during a US holiday week or on a Canadian school break? Burke might be an option for you for reasonable ski in ski out.

We'll avoid the holidays so that's not an issue. Burke? Hmm..googling..

 

[mdf]

Yeah 3 and a bit and what will be an 8 month old. The younger one kinda put the wrench in the works. So just so my wife and I can switch off easily.

In the grade school years it becomes important because most kids ski a few hours and then they are done for the day (or cranky if that isn't an option). I think it was about middle school my son started skiing all day.

 

[scott43]

So what's the deal with Burke? Looks like solid blue and above terrain, nice hotel, kids lessons. Any red flags here?

Seems the vert is a bit skewed by the flat at the bottom..and only 1 express lift on the better part of the mountain..

 

[Crank]

So what's the deal with Burke? Looks like solid blue and above terrain, nice hotel, kids lessons. Any red flags here?

Seems the vert is a bit skewed by the flat at the bottom..and only 1 express lift on the better part of the mountain..

Bottom is very flat and you really never go there. That said there are a bunch of condos down there and it would be great terrain for the 3-year old. There is parking up near the hotel and what is considered their mid-mountain lodge.

Burke is mostly blue with some black and some nice glades and tree skiing as well. Longest line I ever saw there was 10 minutes and that was on a powder day during Christmas week. Hotel ran incredible deals when it was brand new season before last. Not a lot else going on there. Pretty area. There are a few restaurants and a general store down in the village of East Burke.

There is great xc skiing there - not at the ski area itself, but at Kingdom Trails on Darling Hill just a couple miles from the resort.

In my experience, unless it's crowded the express lift is the only one they will run that takes you to the summit. There is also a t-bar that goes about half way up...maybe a little more. Burke Mountain Academy uses it and you can too but I don;' think they want you running their gates. Some great racers have come out of that school.

However, with little kids you may want to go to a place that has more infrastructure... don't know about child care, etc there. Tremblant is fun for kids.

 

[4aprice]

when we last went there, we had wind or lift issues, and it forced everyone onto one or two lifts. And with their ancient slow lifts it made it very hard to get any skiing done between the lines and lift speed. And this was years ago -- I don't think they have upgraded anything since then. our condo was excellent though, and the kids program was good (according to one of our cotravelers who brought his 12yo with us). we got so frustrated with the whole lift/line situation that the next day - despite holding smuggs day tickets as part of our condo package - we drove over to stowe and skiied there. paying for those lift tix $$$ stung though.

i realize it has its enthusiasts but I'm not one.

we lived in Grafton VT for a long time and liked easy skiing Okemo and quirky Bromley the best.

So much here that I agree with.

Grew up skiing Smuggs when it was Madonna Mt.

Perfect day?, all systems go, great place, great terrain and exciting skiing.

Unfortunately time is passing it by, and I don't think the answers are easy for them. I will note that there are people who like it that way. I like the post quoted above am not one of them.

The lifts: One big problem is that running a high speed to Madonna summit is probably out of the question due to winds. Sterling could certainly handle one.Morse too.

The only option I see is to replace Madonna II (w/high speed) and extend it up the mountain further , possibly to a point near where Chilcoot makes its turn off the ridge to head down toward the base. Its been a while (so I'm going from memory) but maybe from that point they could run another "Catwalk" parallel to one up higher to allow access to Doc's, FIS and Freefall and IF they could get it over to the Drifter/liftline junction allow boarding of Madonna I there.

Haven't stayed in the village in many, many years so no opinion there but the day lodges were in need of upgrades last time I was there and there are no upper mountain facilities. As pointed out location is an issue as well as it is tough to get to. The fact that they have not joined one of the multiple mountain passes is a minus for me as well, however, I do understand they put an RFID system in place which might be precursor to that.

Don't know if the interconnect between Sterling and Spruce Peak could ever be resurrected (Vermont has some really quirky land use laws) but purchase by Epic (Vail) (and yes I can hear the "NO" screams) would certainly spike my interest in the place (and the pass). Imagine starting the day at Morse skiing a variety of runs over to Toll House, having lunch, and doing the same thing on the way back. Almost European in Vermont. Would be the best ski complex in the east. Something I would like to see but don't necessarily believe will ever happen.

 

[MattD]

I've only been there twice, both late season. It has some great terrain, but the infrastructure is old. On the other hand, they seem to have made kids their core market niche. I skied with a couple from somewhere a long ways away (North Carolina, maybe?) who have been coming there about 12 years in a row because their daughter got started there and loved it all the way from young child through teenager.

Hey ... that sounds like us!! Was this a late season day at a small Pugski East Gathering??

 

[mdf]

Hey ... that sounds like us!! Was this a late season day at a small Pugski East Gathering??

Exactly. Sort of a nano-gathering.

 

[TheArchitect]

I went to Smuggs for a weekend a few years ago. Fantastic terrain but I won't go back until the lifts are upgraded. As everyone has said, the lifts are old and slow and distract from the experience enough to keep me away.

 

[BC.]

Fantastic terrain but I won't go back until the lifts are upgraded. As everyone has said, old and slow and distracts from the experience enough to keep me away.

^^^This might be the perfect description of Smuggs.

 

[mdf]

I went to Smuggs for a weekend a few years ago. Fantastic terrain but I won't go back until the lifts are upgraded. As everyone has said, the lifts are old and slow and distract from the experience enough to keep me away.

I guess I am a little more tolerant. It will certainly keep me from being a regular, but I might go one day a year in spite of that.

Hmmm...that is "damning with faint praise ", isn't it?

 

[MattD]

Exactly. Sort of a nano-gathering.

We head up there for a week every year. Last year I did a few days at Stratton before heading up to Smuggs to meet my family ... the difference in lifts was comical.
Other than weekends, we rarely have an issue with lift lines, however. Love their gladed terrain and the variety for a family. That, combined with ease of access around the village and slopeside condos make it a good choice for our family. Wife and daughter love it, so I'll put up with the slow lifts.