• For more information on how to avoid pop-up ads and still support SkiTalk click HERE.

LiquidFeet

instructor
Instructor
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
6,697
Location
New England
Let's say we're talking about one or two day-old chopped up snow in a bowl.
What's your go-to turn choice?
What about the characteristics of the ski you're on that makes your choice work well for you?

I started this thread because the following was said about the AR in the Stockli thread:
"The AR is trying to be really good at many things, but it isn't going to snap rebound like a SL FIS ski. If it did, it wouldn't be great off piste smearing turns in choppy snow."

Find that comment here: https://www.pugski.com/threads/2019-stöckli.8747/page-22#post-422859
 
Last edited:

Scruffy

Making fresh tracks
Skier
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Nov 16, 2015
Posts
2,429
Location
Upstate NY
In chopped up snow I carve through it. I wouldn't want to be smearing through that.
For me, any ski type I'd ski it the same way. Many think that damp heavy skis are needed for busting crud, I ski both heavy and damp skis and light and flexy skis through crud. The trick to skiing light and flexy skis through crud is to be light and relaxed on your feet so you can absorb the terrain while keeping a quiet upper body.
 

Chris V.

Making fresh tracks
Skier
Joined
Mar 25, 2016
Posts
1,366
Location
Truckee
Tipping and riding them around will be the objective no matter what. Just the other day conditions were reminding me how deadly it can be to try to smear. Patches of breakable crust. In such conditions, if the skis are wide enough, you might be able to get the tails to displace, smearing the turns a bit, but you'll still have to tip the skis enough to get the outside edges above the snow surface. On narrow slalom skis, the entire ski will be below the surface, and any effort at smearing will lead to you tripping over the edges to the outside of the turn (or intended turn).

Realistically, broken snow, gloppy snow, and crusty conditions are the main reason for people riding wide skis. Most never see much untracked powder.
 

razie

Sir Shiftsalot
Skier
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Jan 18, 2016
Posts
1,619
Location
Ontario
Let's say we're talking about one or two day-old chopped up snow in a bowl.

Easterner question: what is that? Is that like ice that's not frozen yet and they haven't groomed for two days?
:roflmao:

If you master both one-footed releases (early and late or weighted) it doesn't matter much which you choose. Brushing or carving is just a matter of decision - and if it's soft, you're probably brushing anyways... pivoting will probably lead to hospitalization in those conditions, though, unless you're a really good hopper...
 
Last edited:

Steve

SkiMangoJazz
Pass Pulled
Joined
Nov 13, 2015
Posts
2,338
To me staying light, using down unweighting and retraction, softening the pressure is key, more so in steered turns.
 

Josh Matta

Skiing the powder
Pass Pulled
Joined
Dec 21, 2015
Posts
4,123
Tipping....

this is why tree skiing can be trickiest just after a day or two after a storm, but actually get easier the more skied in the snow in, or was easiest in fresh snow. Tipping movements lead to less deflection, but typically in tree round turns are not always possible and some smearing must occur.
 

Scruffy

Making fresh tracks
Skier
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Nov 16, 2015
Posts
2,429
Location
Upstate NY
I started this thread because the following was said about the AR in the Stockli thread:
"The AR is trying to be really good at many things, but it isn't going to snap rebound like a SL FIS ski. If it did, it wouldn't be great off piste smearing turns in choppy snow."

Find that comment here: https://www.pugski.com/threads/2019-stöckli.8747/page-22#post-422859

I wouldn't smear turns in choppy snow on a Stockli AR!! Maybe I'd try it on some big fat clown shoe type of ski with huge tip and tail rocker.

The AR is trying to be really good at many things, but it isn't going to snap rebound like a SL FIS ski. If it did, it wouldn't be great off piste smearing turns in choppy snow."

Fixed it for him.
 

CoPow

Putting on skis
Skier
Joined
Dec 14, 2019
Posts
93
Location
CO
Can't really picture the situation. I must be using the words differently. When I say chopped, it's usually too deep to smear. I probably do cross under short carving turns, or if it's REALLY chopped, stand tall to do long turns with a ton of leaning.
 

François Pugh

Skiing the powder
Skier
Joined
Nov 17, 2015
Posts
7,617
Location
Great White North (Eastern side currently)
I usually prefer to tip and rip. The choppier the snow piles and heavier the snow, the harder sideways skiing becomes, but arc-2-arc pure carved turns are always easy (for me) provided there is no need for additional speed control. Except for skiing slowly with fat full-rockered skis (e.g. Volkl 100-eight), then it's all good.
 
Thread Starter
TS
LiquidFeet

LiquidFeet

instructor
Instructor
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
6,697
Location
New England
Repeating this:

I started this thread because the following was said about the AR in the Stockli thread:
"The AR is trying to be really good at many things, but it isn't going to snap rebound like a SL FIS ski. If it did, it wouldn't be great off piste smearing turns in choppy snow."

Find that comment here: https://www.pugski.com/threads/2019-stöckli.8747/page-22#post-422859
 

CoPow

Putting on skis
Skier
Joined
Dec 14, 2019
Posts
93
Location
CO
I'm too naive and I don't know where, or either or not, to laugh. You mean smearing in chops?
 

oldschoolskier

Making fresh tracks
Skier
Joined
Dec 6, 2015
Posts
4,229
Location
Ontario Canada
I ski both FIS GS and SL skis. In terms of crud snow conditions I have slight preference towards the GS, they just punch through whatever is there. With both skis, carve or smear who cares, I don’t because I can do both equally well. I ski it how I want and don’t let snow conditions determine my style. I see it as improving myself to be able to ski anything (ultimate goal) in any style or technique at will.
 

CalG

Out on the slopes
Pass Pulled
Joined
Feb 5, 2017
Posts
1,962
Location
Vt
I can't think of any time I have wanted to smear a turn in heavy broken snow. Coming to a stop is close.

But I usually stop in a straight line.

My take is that the quote was made based on a combination of ill defined intentions.

On the other hand, turns after a freezing night, (coral reef and or chicken heads) could provide fertile ground for smearing turns.
 

Tony S

I have a confusion to make ...
Skier
Team Gathermeister
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Nov 14, 2015
Posts
12,630
Location
Maine
Let's say we're talking about one or two day-old chopped up snow in a bowl.
What's your go-to turn choice?
What about the characteristics of the ski you're on that makes your choice work well for you?

I started this thread because the following was said about the AR in the Stockli thread:
"The AR is trying to be really good at many things, but it isn't going to snap rebound like a SL FIS ski. If it did, it wouldn't be great off piste smearing turns in choppy snow."

Find that comment here: https://www.pugski.com/threads/2019-stöckli.8747/page-22#post-422859

The comment about the AR is dubious. Can we just leave that out of the discussion that falls from your question?

It depends a lot on what kind of chopped up snow. Dry fluff? Pffft. Whatever you want. Going to assume you're talking about snow with some weight and resistance, though.

So yes, in that case, tip and ride around, for sure. A ski that has longer, lower rise works better for me in those conditions. Slicing is good; surfing is bad.

And Josh's comment about trees is spot on. I tend to just avoid them in those circumstances, unless they're widely spaced.
 

Bad Bob

I golf worse than I ski.
Skier
Joined
Dec 2, 2015
Posts
5,843
Location
West of CDA South of Canada
Skied your conditions today. 3rd day out and everything off piste was very good for me, it was real crap. Being the 3rd day out everything is not dialed down yet, was very aware of entry into this stuff. 1st round turns were tails following the tips and then do what you can.

There are times when nature just doesn't care what kind of ski your on.
 

Sponsor

Top