Smartwool vs...?

[martyg]

I'm using the Paradox merino stuff that you get at Costco. It is very nice. and quite inexpensive too.

I believe it is mostly poly. You also need to understand QA processes at point of shearing and combing.

 

[martyg]

SW stopped using compact spinning in fiber construction some time ago. It provides the fabric with a more attractive hand at retail, but does not have as much structural integrity as brands that do incorporate compact spinning.

 

[cantunamunch]

SW stopped using compact spinning in fiber construction some time ago. It provides the fabric with a more attractive hand at retail, but does not have as much structural integrity as brands that do incorporate compact spinning.

Hahahah this post totally reminds me of the tufts of wool I used to get off the hydroentangled liners in their race gloves.

 

[Jerez]

I love Ibex and Icebreaker but they both have to dry flat or line dry. Smartwool goes in the washer and dryer on low, so I never shrink it by mistake. I also bought a pair of Bergens wool leggings and like them a lot. Very warm. I can't decipher the care label so not sure if they are line dry only as well.

 

[cantunamunch]

I love Ibex and Icebreaker but they both have to dry flat or line dry. Smartwool goes in the washer and dryer on low, so I never shrink it by mistake. I also bought a pair of Bergens wool leggings and like them a lot. Very warm. I can't decipher the care label so not sure if they are line dry only as well.

Do you have one of those lie-flat dryer fitments?

 

[martyg]

I love Ibex and Icebreaker but they both have to dry flat or line dry. Smartwool goes in the washer and dryer on low, so I never shrink it by mistake. I also bought a pair of Bergens wool leggings and like them a lot. Very warm. I can't decipher the care label so not sure if they are line dry only as well.

I never had that issue. The before mentioned brands Superwash their fibers. If you look at a wool fiber under a microscope you will see that it is covered with what looks like scales. Superwashing is an acidic base treatment that removes those "scales". Those "scales" are what causes a wool filament to shrink, not the fiber itself. The acidic wash is then neutralized with an alkaline solution prior to leaving the factory. Most, if not all brands utilizing Merino Superwash, because most are sourcing fiber from a few suppliers and using a few processors.

Regardless, I recommend to consumers that they always hang wash anything that they have an attachment to. Driers abrade fabric and leads to premature failure of the garment. Likewise, if you put something with a zipper in the drier make sure that it is zippered up. The teeth act like a file on your garments, further abrading them. This is especially true on #3 zippers used on most baselayers.

 

[QueueCT]

I never had that issue. The before mentioned brands Superwash their fibers. If you look at a wool fiber under a microscope you will see that it is covered with what looks like scales. Superwashing is an acidic base treatment that removes those "scales". Those "scales" are what causes a wool filament to shrink, not the fiber itself. The acidic wash is then neutralized with an alkaline solution prior to leaving the factory. Most, if not all brands utilizing Merino Superwash, because most are sourcing fiber from a few suppliers and using a few processors.

Regardless, I recommend to consumers that they always hang wash anything that they have an attachment to. Driers abrade fabric and leads to premature failure of the garment. Likewise, if you put something with a zipper in the drier make sure that it is zippered up. The teeth act like a file on your garments, further abrading them. This is especially true on #3 zippers used on most baselayers.

Fully agree re drying Merino. When a shirt makes it into the drier by mistake I would find small holes. Whether from zippers or other abuse I don't know but I religiously flat dry them.

Don't care about my Smartwool socks, they hold up in the drier without a problem.

 

[martyg]

Fully agree re drying Merino. When a shirt makes it into the drier by mistake I would find small holes. Whether from zippers or other abuse I don't know but I religiously flat dry them.

Don't care about my Smartwool socks, they hold up in the drier without a problem.

Skier - check out Point6. It is owned by the people who knows more about Merino that anyone in the industry. Peter and Patty where ski instructors in Steamboat. They started another sock company that Timberland purchased and is now owned by VFC. They came back with Point6.

 

[NESkiBum]

I do like the Smartwool Merino 250 but really like the new Helly Hansen LIFA Merino. I find the weight to warmth ratio to be a great choice and the fit is perfect for me.

On a side note, the Helly LIFA Alpine socks are awesome. I do have a problem with my feet getting cold and have tried Smartwool, Darn Tough, etc and find the Helly socks to be the best I have used.

 

[coskigirl]

Skier - check out Point6. It is owned by the people who knows more about Merino that anyone in the industry. Peter and Patty where ski instructors in Steamboat. They started another sock company that Timberland purchased and is now owned by VFC. They came back with Point6.

Speaking of VFC, they now own Icebreaker as well. It'll be interesting to see if they keep it as a separate brand or absorb into Smartwool.

 

[martyg]

Speaking of VFC, they now own Icebreaker as well. It'll be interesting to see if they keep it as a separate brand or absorb into Smartwool.

They will likely keep them separate. Two different customers and two different sets of fit mannequins. Production and supplier efficiencies will likely be where we will see (or not as is the case) consolidation.

 

[Jerez]

I never had that issue. The before mentioned brands Superwash their fibers. If you look at a wool fiber under a microscope you will see that it is covered with what looks like scales. Superwashing is an acidic base treatment that removes those "scales". Those "scales" are what causes a wool filament to shrink, not the fiber itself. The acidic wash is then neutralized with an alkaline solution prior to leaving the factory. Most, if not all brands utilizing Merino Superwash, because most are sourcing fiber from a few suppliers and using a few processors.

Regardless, I recommend to consumers that they always hang wash anything that they have an attachment to. Driers abrade fabric and leads to premature failure of the garment. Likewise, if you put something with a zipper in the drier make sure that it is zippered up. The teeth act like a file on your garments, further abrading them. This is especially true on #3 zippers used on most baselayers.

That's very interesting; thank you. I was just going by the care tags.

I have definitely shrunk Icebreaker by mistake. (On the bright side it's how I procured my husband's old base layer and it's really warm.) I've had my smartwool base layer for four years and no shrinkage or damage from being in the dryer on low. I always zip everything. I'd rather have a slightly shorter lifespan from the dryer than have a really short lifespan from well meaning laundry helpers shrinking stuff (including me!).

 

[tch]

They will likely keep them separate. Two different customers and two different sets of fit mannequins. .

MartyG, do you have useful insight into this comment? Explanation/elaboration on different fits? Thx.

 

[coskigirl]

They will likely keep them separate. Two different customers and two different sets of fit mannequins. Production and supplier efficiencies will likely be where we will see (or not as is the case) consolidation.

MartyG, do you have useful insight into this comment? Explanation/elaboration on different fits? Thx.

I don't know, they bought Lucy and kept it separate for 10 years but now are closing Lucy and pulling up favorite products into The North Face. I suspect they'll do something similar with Icebreaker eventually.

 

[RNZ]

They will likely keep them separate. Two different customers and two different sets of fit mannequins. Production and supplier efficiencies will likely be where we will see (or not as is the case) consolidation.

MartyG, do you have useful insight into this comment? Explanation/elaboration on different fits? Thx.

Media reports and interviews with the chairman of Icebreaker both say that they have committed to the Icebreaker head office staying here in New Zealand. Icebreaker considered more than 24 serious offers for the company. Also Merino suppliers secured 10 year contracts and pricing agreements which apparently carry over with the sale. What has been reported here is that VF is looking to grow the brand. They have been quoted as saying that they see Icebreaker as complementing snartwool. Two key Icebreaker people are staying on with the new company. Longer term the limiting factor may be wool supply as Icebreaker wool needs to comply with particular standards including animal welfare, environmental and social responsibility. Apparently work is underway to certify farms in Australia and others unspecified countries.

 

[Chris Walker]

Weatherproof is good enough for me. Cheap too.

 

[martyg]

Media reports and interviews with the chairman of Icebreaker both say that they have committed to the Icebreaker head office staying here in New Zealand. Icebreaker considered more than 24 serious offers for the company. Also Merino suppliers secured 10 year contracts and pricing agreements which apparently carry over with the sale. What has been reported here is that VF is looking to grow the brand. They have been quoted as saying that they see Icebreaker as complementing snartwool. Two key Icebreaker people are staying on with the new company. Longer term the limiting factor may be wool supply as Icebreaker wool needs to comply with particular standards including animal welfare, environmental and social responsibility. Apparently work is underway to certify farms in Australia and others unspecified countries.

I don't know, they bought Lucy and kept it separate for 10 years but now are closing Lucy and pulling up favorite products into The North Face. I suspect they'll do something similar with Icebreaker eventually.

I retired from being an independent product developer in the industry with offices on the West Coast and China, so I have a bit of exposure to how this typically goes down. Of course in ten years if a brand looses traction, if maintaining two offices, two sales forces, two marketing departments, two CS teams, etc doesn't pencil out the dynamic will change.