Small Backpack for Skinning Inbounds

[Primoz]

I wouldn't count much on weight training to help with this. Running on other side would do tremendous help. No idea how much into running you are, but let's assume you can run normally. Hour of running, several days a week, would be pretty much enough to be in good enough shape. I wouldn't worry about adding interval training into this, as you won't be racing anyway, so just normal Z2 (65-83% of max HR) trail run will do just fine. Now if running is not your thing, and you were never doing it (much), going for 1h run pretty much mission impossible. Then I'm not really sure what would help
PS: If you manage to move a bit faster through transitions (I'm always slow in that and hardly ever make it under 10min, unless I really hurry, but I try not to, as normally it's super nice to be on top of mountain enjoying time alone there ) I still think you are more into 4-5h max then 6-7

 

[LiquidFeet]

@L&AirC, you are training for a marathon on snow. Have you considered looking at marathon training strategies?

 

[cantunamunch]

I'm not going to advise you about workout specifics since I believe discipline is the biggest hurdle and you have that. Something that might help with the mental game in the long run tho: https://www.amazon.com/Brave-Athlete-Calm-Down-Occasion/dp/1937715736

 

[jmeb]

This probably goes without saying -- but the best training for skinning is skinning. The next best things are endurance cardio workouts where you increase your aerobic fitness. Like @Primoz says -- longer, less intense workouts. Trail running is great. Running, biking, even two straight hours watching a movie on an elliptical. No need to go for interval or anaerobic training unless you're looking to really push your speed.

If you can, I'd dedicate time beforehand to a steady build-up of skinning laps. Start with just 1 or maybe 2 laps. Then add a lap each time. If you get to a place where you can do 4,000ft without much issue, you'll be able to push it to 6,000' when you really want it.

 

[L&AirC]

Tonight I'm going to start a different thread on the physical aspects. I think this is too far of a drift and for someone that spends their day data mining, I empathize with future folks doing research. I think I'll be able to figure out how to bring the last few posts over.

 

[KULKEA]

Our Micro Pack would be helpful! Light and low profile, for the essentials.

https://www.kulkea.com/product/ski-backpack-micro-pack/

 

[L&AirC]

Our Micro Pack would be helpful! Light and low profile, for the essentials.

https://www.kulkea.com/product/ski-backpack-micro-pack/

This is the first pack I looked at and Kulkea will always be my first stop for items like this. I still can't thank you enough for the Thermal Trekker and your great customer service.

I have a concern though. My plan is to use a camelbak for water and this didn't look like it is compatible with that. I watched the videos at the link and it looks like there is a slender zippered pocket on the part that would be against your back. In your features you have it listed as a Security pocket.

Would that accomodate a camelbak of some sort? I'm concerned about water bottles freezing and me not being able to get at them without stopping. While walking I'm sure it is easy to reach back and grab them but with ski poles in my hands I'm picturing the pole getting between my legs and tripping me while I reach for a water bottle.

Even if it was a "yah it would work but it isn't a perfect fit" or something of the sort, I would rather that over using water bottles. Even if I can't fill the camelbak all the way but could carry about 20 ounces, that would at least get me up and I can refill it at the base.

If it will work some way, we have a winner.

 

[jmeb]

I, and most every guide I've had, would *not* recommend using a camelback while skinning. Unless you can be certain that conditions will be above freezing, camelbacks have a nasty habit of freezing while skinning leaving you without water. Not a big deal when you're just one ski away, but annoying. Hydrating at each transition will be enough if done regularly.

As for the micropack -- a bunch of external straps like that make me nervous while riding lifts. No matter how low profile, straps can get tangled. This was beaten into our heads during lift evac practice and lecture last week. One common cause for people failing to unload probably is gear snagged on a chair. There is a reason why in-bounds focused packs typically havea very smooth back. Example:

 

[Lauren]

I'm concerned about water bottles freezing and me not being able to get at them without stopping. While walking I'm sure it is easy to reach back and grab them but with ski poles in my hands I'm picturing the pole getting between my legs and tripping me while I reach for a water bottle.

I started writing this, and jmeb beat me to it. But I'd be more concerned about camelbacks freezing (the hose and mouth piece) than water bottles. There are a few "tricks" to keeping them from freezing.
- Make sure you drink from it regularly ("regularly" depends on how cold it is. If I ride lift service with a camelback I make sure I drink from it EVERY lift ride, if not more).
- Have an insulated sleeve (even then...use some of these other tricks with that)
- Use a chemical hand warmer in the sleeve part, or around the mouth piece to thaw it out
- Bring an extra mouth piece in case it does freeze
- Blow all of the water back through the tube when you're done drinking. If there's no water in the tube, it can't freeze.

Water bottles...
- If they're on the outside of your pack, store them upside down. The top (that's actually the bottom) will freeze first, so you can always get water out of it.
- Use an insulated bottle holder (there's some nice ones that clip onto your pack belt that are easily accessible and fit a Nalgene size bottle).

If I bring a Camelback skinning, I'll normally have a spare small bottle in my bag, just in case.

 

[cantunamunch]

If I bring a Camelback skinning, I'll normally have a spare small bottle in my bag, just in case.

Me too, except that small spare bottle has more to do with freezing point depression. 40 proof is good to 15F ya know.

 

[L&AirC]

I, and most every guide I've had, would *not* recommend using a camelback while skinning. Unless you can be certain that conditions will be above freezing, camelbacks have a nasty habit of freezing while skinning leaving you without water. Not a big deal when you're just one ski away, but annoying. Hydrating at each transition will be enough if done regularly.

As for the micropack -- a bunch of external straps like that make me nervous while riding lifts. No matter how low profile, straps can get tangled. This was beaten into our heads during lift evac practice and lecture last week. One common cause for people failing to unload probably is gear snagged on a chair. There is a reason why in-bounds focused packs typically havea very smooth back. Example:

That is a nice pack and agree with the concern of getting loops caught on a chair lift, but the entire reason why I want the pack is for when I'm NOT riding the chair lift. I only want it for skinning and will probably also use it now and again when I go hiking with my wife. I have to admit I do like this pack and it is definitely a contender.
I could possibly use it for coaching (and riding the lift) instead of the godawful ones we have.

I am used to going up the lift with backpacks but they are usually full of timing gear, brushes, and spare drill batteries and have loops and tethers all over the frickin place. Not to mention adds about 6 inches to my girth and is why I typically take the pack off and keep it on my lap for the ride up.

With regards to the freezing camelbak tube, it's a matter of trade offs; risk a freezing tube, risk a freezing bottle, risk tripping via ski pole, risk slowing down to take off pack to get to water etc. If I was going on a backcountry adventure, the freezing would be more concerning, but even on telemark gear, I can get down my home mountain where I'm doing this in just a few minutes. I have used a camelbak with a different pack a few times while skinning up and it did freeze on me once. After that I was more careful full about things and would make sure to keep the water moving and not in the tube. I am considering getting a insulating sleeve for it and as @elemmac points out, there are some things to do to help prevent this.

I really don't like carrying a pack at all while skiing and avoid it like the plague. Aside from skinning up, I don't see myself carrying one aside from coaching (and I should consider that with this purchase). Nor (at least at this point) do I see myself doing any skinning outside of my home mountain now and again to stay in shape (once I get in shape).

Thanks,
Ken

 

[L&AirC]

I started writing this, and jmeb beat me to it. But I'd be more concerned about camelbacks freezing (the hose and mouth piece) than water bottles. There are a few "tricks" to keeping them from freezing.
- Make sure you drink from it regularly ("regularly" depends on how cold it is. If I ride lift service with a camelback I make sure I drink from it EVERY lift ride, if not more).
- Have an insulated sleeve (even then...use some of these other tricks with that)
- Use a chemical hand warmer in the sleeve part, or around the mouth piece to thaw it out
- Bring an extra mouth piece in case it does freeze
- Blow all of the water back through the tube when you're done drinking. If there's no water in the tube, it can't freeze.

Water bottles...
- If they're on the outside of your pack, store them upside down. The top (that's actually the bottom) will freeze first, so you can always get water out of it.
- Use an insulated bottle holder (there's some nice ones that clip onto your pack belt that are easily accessible and fit a Nalgene size bottle).

If I bring a Camelback skinning, I'll normally have a spare small bottle in my bag, just in case.

The ones I bolded are what I started doing after mine froze on me once. Thanks for the tips on using bottles. Hadn't thought of those.

I think I'm going to have to try a few things and then make a decision. Possibly a combination like you mentions with a back-up bottle in the pack.

 

[Lauren]

I really don't like carrying a pack at all while skiing and avoid it like the plague.

If you don’t like wearing a pack skiing, consider the Dakine Heli 12L. It’s wider and longer than many other packs of the same volume, so its a decent amount thinner. This disperses the weight and awkwardness of a pack across your entire back. I generally don’t have much of an issue with packs skiing, but I’m a lot pickier snowboarding...this is one of the few packs I’ve used that I don’t even notice while riding.

 

[karlo]

Leave warm gear, snack replacements, sunscreen, etc at the bottom in a spare pack. If it's cold out, a warm thermos of coffee will be clutch.

I would take nothing going up, just leave everything at the base and put the skins in your jacket for the downhill.

Maybe bring extra layers on the first lap and leave some half way up and some at the top? Just in case?

Trail running is great. Running, biking, even two straight hours watching a movie on an elliptical.

Or while

data mining,

 

[L&AirC]

Maybe bring extra layers on the first lap and leave some half way up and some at the top? Just in case?



Or while

I might even be able to work a deal with Ski Patrol as their shack is up there. Maybe some water too as this sounds to be the most challenging.

I've often pondered how I could get work to affix a bike to my desk, but who would want to sit next to me in a conference room after that

 

[L&AirC]

I started another thread about the physical aspects here -

https://www.pugski.com/threads/getting-in-shape-for-skinning.16802/

 

[karlo]

The ones I bolded are what I started doing after mine froze on me once. Thanks for the tips on using bottles. Hadn't thought of those.

So, you’ll accept water from Ski Patrol, but not accept the help of porters?

 

[cantunamunch]

So, you’ll accept water from Ski Patrol, but not accept the help of porters?

He just doesn't want us all showing up at his birthday party and distracting him from his triumphant misery.

 

[L&AirC]

So, you’ll accept water from Ski Patrol, but not accept the help of porters?

My plan was to skin up with the extra gear/water and leave it in their shack, so I'm not really accepting it from them. Besides, it'll probably cost me a six pack.

 

[L&AirC]

He just doesn't want us all showing up at his birthday party and distracting him from his triumphant misery.

I don't want anyone showing up because the misery will be seeing me teleski on the way down. It only gets worse as I get tired. It's MFAF.

Note to self - start looking for a touring set up.