DB Cooper

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I'm curious about this topic.

When should one look for a ski with metal vs. one without? For some context, I am referring to skis in the One Oh Something class. I am a bigger guy (6'3", 215 lbs) so in my mind I think I want a ski with metal, but what would the advantage/disadvantage be in going for a ski without metal? I also think I want a ski that weighs more than 2000 grams so if there is no metal in the ski will I achieve that weight? What am I giving up and what am I gaining in terms of performance characteristics? If I were to get on a Liberty Origin 106, for example, what could I expect out of that ski given it has no metal vs. a ski like the Enforcer 104 with metal? Other skis I am curious about in this class are the Fischer Ranger 102 FR, QST 106 and possibly the Kastle FX106 HP. My biggest question regarding the Kastle is more length related. The 184 feels short but the 192 feels long, but if it has no metal will the 192 feel easier to ski than I imagine it would?

Thanks for your help!
 

Tricia

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There is a myth about metal.
Heck, even I will point to a ski with metal for someone who's bigger or someone who is a stronger skier, but there are some good skis that don't have metal that are really strong skis.
What I like about a little metal in a ski is the calmness that metal can add to the construction.
Example: when metal was added to the Santa Ana lineup I felt that the ski inspired more confidence than its predecessor which didn't have metal.
Did it get a little stiffer? Yes, but not drastically.
Did it lose some of the nimbleness? Yes, but not drastically
Was it more damp? Yes, in a big way.

Remember, metal is an ingredient, and it takes several ingredients to bake a cake.
 
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DB Cooper

DB Cooper

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There is a myth about metal.
Heck, even I will point to a ski with metal for someone who's bigger or someone who is a stronger skier, but there are some good skis that don't have metal that are really strong skis.
What I like about a little metal in a ski is the calmness that metal can add to the construction.
Example: when metal was added to the Santa Ana lineup I felt that the ski inspired more confidence than its predecessor the didn't have metal.
Did it get a little stiffer? Yes, but not drastically.
Did it lose some of the nimbleness? Yes, but not drastically
Was it more damp? Yes, in a big way.

Remember, metal is an ingredient, and it takes several ingredients to bake a cake.
What are some strong skis in the One Oh Something category without metal?
 

Tricia

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What are some strong skis in the One Oh Something category without metal?
Some of these are specific to the width of the ski in the model line but here are a few....
IIRC the Blizzard Rustler has metal under foot but doesn't run the full length of the ski.
The new Volkl Blaze
Atomic Backland
Head KORE
Salomon QST

To name a few.
 

givethepigeye

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Some of these are specific to the width of the ski in the model line but here are a few....
IIRC the Blizzard Rustler has metal under foot but doesn't run the full length of the ski.
The new Volkl Blaze
Atomic Backland
Head KORE
Salomon QST

To name a few.
Neither here nor there, but on mine, that I no longer own, I might add. It went pretty far to the tips and tails in a conical shape, but wasn't the full width. The green w/ tapered tip Bodacious (last year before they went back to the OG construction) was just in the binding area.
 

pete

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for the limited skis I've had, most have metal and stiff as i'm tipping 200. I would claim their dampness was what I liked but being stiff and stable was perhaps more the overall design than metal. I never looked into their actual stack up but believe it was simply sheets and not shaped.

Their choice as noted was stiffness which I presumed beneficial for my weight, which really today I won't claim. I based their comparative stiffness off the Ski Canada reviews as I liked how they rated skis for various factors.

I did pick up a softer K2 Amp 3 yrs ago (I think Amp, I'd have to look) simply for difference and it was much lighter.

Today I'd likely demo to buy to try out a ski before next buy, being located mountainless limited my time and access to demo.
 

AngryAnalyst

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My experience of this is that metal makes skis much damper in general. Either because they are damper or because the metal does something else (torsional rigidity?), I haven’t had a ski I liked a lot on groomers without metal.

The more this skis is intended for soft snow for you, the less I would want metal. I really like wide skis without it (but my wide is 110+).
 
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flbufl

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You should try the Black Crows Navis (102 mm) and/or Corvus (107 mm).

Metal significantly increases the dampening-ness of the skis especially on hardpack, but decreases the liveliness of the skis.

What are some strong skis in the One Oh Something category without metal?
 

CO Freeskier

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I'm 195 lbs, 5'11" and everything I own has metal...my all-time favorite is the 105mm waisted Dynastar Pro Rider Factory (think it is now the Pro Rider F-Team). Will definitely be damper, heavier and, in the case of the Pro Rider, requires speed so your skiing style and fitness play a big role in whether you'd like a ski with metal. If you ski fast and and enjoy high edge angles, the ski weight becomes less of an issue and more of an asset (stability). Regarding liveliness, I'd argue that the Pro Rider (and others with metal) become lively the higher the speed and the more you bend/arch them.
 

LiquidFeet

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....your skiing style and fitness play a big role in whether you'd like a ski with metal. If you ski fast and and enjoy high edge angles, the ski weight becomes less of an issue and more of an asset (stability). ....
Another refrigerator-magnet-worthy observation.
 
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anders_nor

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I LOVE skis with metal!! 6'2 215-220lbs

the only non metal ski I can say I really love is the fischer ranger 102 FR, the bent chetler is "more ok"
 

Lars of NM

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metal makes the ski more damp and it will be better on icy hard surfaces. I wouldn't worry about weight. More weight can be a good thing for going downhill. Less weight helps with jump turns, but how much of that do you really do. If you are touring, then I would consider weight, but for lift served it doesn't really matter.
 

markojp

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Only non metal ski in the closet now is a 189 Kore 99. Pretty darn good, but not quite the edge grip of the metal laden Monster 98 or MX 98. Certainly easier to ski though, especially in bumps.
 

tromano

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I love a beefy skis with metal (e.g. Monster 98, Fischer PM86) for carving and skiing with higher edge angles all over the mountain. Its fun to ski technical terrain on a high edge angle with a high level of commitment. But that can be physically pretty intense. For lower impact skiing with lower edge angles and drifting more as in trees, bumps, tight and steep terrain, that preference is muted and a softer ski with or with out metal is a nice change of pace and works better for a low key approach.
 
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Rod9301

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I have the katanas both in metal and carbon.

No difference in edge hold on firm, perhaps though the carbon might be better

The metal gets less deflected in cut up powder.

Jump turns are about the same on steep terrain, even though the carbon is a lot lighter.
 

cantunamunch

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I like love a beefy skis with metal (e.g. Monster 98, Fischer PM86) for carving and skiing with higher edge angles all over the mountain.
I oughta get you on my evil nurse Zag H112s. No metal other than edges but doubled fiberglass torsion box. The 192s are damper than a 2016/17 98 in 184cm, and the resonance is lower (around 40Hz).
 

jmeb

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Rossi black ops series is heavy without metal if you're into a more progressively mounted ski. Number of indie ski makers also make stout skis w/o metal -- On3p mentioned, Praxis, Folsom and Wagner all do as well.

Personally I find my sweet spot for a crud ski is something with partial metal in the layup. Used to love my Prophets, then moved on to an Atomic w/ some metal, and next ski to be mounted is a set of Corvus (again, partial metal). I tend to like skis with somewhat forgiving tips/tails with a beefy midsection.
 

Noodler

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I oughta get you on my evil nurse Zag H112s. No metal other than edges but doubled fiberglass torsion box. The 192s are damper than a 2016/17 98 in 184cm, and the resonance is lower (around 40Hz).
With metal layers = almost always damp
Without metal layers = cannot be assumed that it is not damp

The Hart Pulse is another example of a ski without metal that is remarkably damp.
 
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