Skis Getting Narrower -- Did Colorado Ski Shops Not Get the Message?

[Philpug]

View attachment 84613 Black is the new black.

Black is back?

Back in black.

It's like a pastel black.

 

[Scruffy]

This discussion been going a while...

^^ that pole in the vid is called a Lurk.

 

[Mike King]

Also the early comment about their being no need for anything larger than 98mm in colorado is probably true, snow is lighter and tends to be less funk, with that said no one "needs" to ski, and many wider skis would be more fun on many day. there are days here that you do need a wide ski to actually ski everywhere. on the windslabbed days I am generally skiing alone because almost no one here skis that stuff or even has a ski to ski that stuff. In fact the shitty 3d snow have become my favorite days to ski because I get untracked snow all day long with no competition. I am sure you can on 98mm ski since you are so skillful though.

You have a different view of my skills than I do. In fact, I need narrower skis in order to develop some skills as my wide skis reinforced a lot of bad, dead end habits.

and as I said earlier, there are conditions where a wide ski is useful. Wind slab, depending on the thickness of the slab, is one of them as is breakable crust. There’s also nothing quite like bending a ski in deep unconsolidated 3D snow. And to get the most out of that experience, some precision in tipping the skis using inclination and angulation, controlling the rotation of the skis with leg rotation under a stable upper body, controlling pressure along the length of the ski, directing pressure to the outside ski, and regulating the magnitude of pressure created by the interaction of the skis and snow is necessary. Hmm. Sounds like the five fundamentals. And where do you perfect those? On skis that reward precision. So why wouldn’t we want shops to offer technical skis to the general public?

 

[Josh Matta]

Skinny ski don’t bend easily or subtly in snow so again you end using different skill blends than fatter skis

 

[slowrider]

Imagine skiing on 210cm skis in 2 ft of PNWet snow 30 yrs ago....

 

[pchewn]

Imagine skiing on 210cm skis in 2 ft of PNWet snow 30 yrs ago....

I don't have to imagine it, I just have to remember it.....

 

[slowrider]

 

[Mike King]

Skinny ski don’t bend easily or subtly in snow so again you end using different skill blends than fatter skis

True, and you tend to push a wider ski to an edge rather than tipping it particularly on harder snow. I suspect thats a big reason why many people like wide skis — because they allow one to do so (the outside ski is less likely to trip the skier in ungroomed snow as they push as well). Learning to turn a ski by tipping to an edge and bending it pays off big time in those conditions you mention, where lateral displacement of the skis either requires tons of effort or isn’t possible.

 

[Josh Matta]

Fat skis respond better to tipping movements in soft snow than skinny skis.

 

[SBrown]

No need for you and your preferences.

Why oh why do people feel like their choice of ski is the right choice of ski? There were many many days last season where I had way more fun skiing my 112mm Deathwishes (or 118mm Bibbys, or gah! 128mm Protests) inbounds than my 98s. This year probably won't be like that, but the a crazy good snow year is still in everone's memory and dreams.

Whatever ski makes someone have the most fun is the right ski.

I had an inbounds day at JH last year where I desperately wished to be on a snowboard.

 

[Blue Streak]

How about 50mm under foot?
Plenty at REI
https://www.rei.com/product/123922/rossignol-evo-glade-59-ar-cross-country-skis-with-bindings
Be careful what you ask for.

 

[dbostedo]

I had an inbounds day at JH last year where I desperately wished to be on a snowboard.

Shh... were not supposed to admit that snowboards are good for anything around here, right?

 

[Tony S]

Fat skis respond better to tipping movements in soft snow than skinny skis.

Now THAT is a good observation.

 

[Josh Matta]

I had an inbounds day at JH last year where I desperately wished to be on a snowboard.

I am curious, what was the condition like?

If you have never tried a reverse sidecut ski in weird stuff you owe it to yourself to try some or buy some. The thing is powder days are gone quick, we sometimes have weeks of wind slab here up for grabs and no competition.

 

[Josh Matta]

Now THAT is a good observation.

Turn can be so much more dynamic in 3d snow on fatter ski. It also part of the reason why I actually kind of hate lighter snow, not enough push back to get any thing out of the turn, also in 3d snow you can lateral G force while displace laterall and if you go with skill blending a world of turn shape not possible at speed on groomers is there for you to explore. Make that snow dense at the G forces are dynamics are so far beyond groomer skiing. My carving in dense snow on my Renegades is way harder than my carving my SL skis. SImple because an edge on hardpack versus an entire ski platform in semi solid mass is not really comparable.

 

[Bad Bob]

@Josh Matta a virtual beer for you on that post. Since for many the thought is heresy so was not going to be the one to broach the topic.

Felt that way a very long time having skied most of my life in PNW and Coastal snow areas. Don't get me wrong have spent the winters in CO and UT and can highly appreciate blower snow. Honestly prefer my snow, and my beer, to have some body to it. Not only for the how you can ski it but also for the where you can ski it; holds way better on steeper terrain, also gives much better coverage to the granite (look at the East Wall at A-Basin, very interesting landscaping up there).

 

[SBrown]

I am curious, what was the condition like?

If you have never tried a reverse sidecut ski in weird stuff you owe it to yourself to try some or buy some. The thing is powder days are gone quick, we sometimes have weeks of wind slab here up for grabs and no competition.

Very deep and very heavy, and low viz. I had to keep up a lot of speed to be able to turn, but ... it's JH. I know the mountain pretty well, but I also know you have to be careful in unknown areas, and in low visibility, I was more cautious. If I slowed down, I sunk to mid-thigh and stopped. Then I spent 5 min digging my skis out. Rinse and repeat. Lol. Was on Völkl 100Eights, a few more millimeters underfoot would have been nice. I am just not strong enough to muscle turns in that kind of snow. It's ok, it was an unusual day by all accounts.

 

[Josh Matta]

ill be honest its not really about the width but more about the shape. I can ski my Renegades or Hoji at basically no speed in that stuff with out muscling. I would have to muscle even my Patrons or El capos in that stuff. Basically traditional sidecut is kinda of stupid when there is no packed snow for it to work on.

 

[markojp]

Lol no duh Francois. Most of us used narrow skis for 20+ years and then found that wider skis are more versatile, even in the Northeast. Sadly my old Volkly P50s no longer hold and edge and in the last year I've bought new women's skis, new kids skis, used kids skis, new pricy kids boots, new mens boots, and a used ski condo. On Sunday my friend would beat me at the end of each run using SL skis, but he's better than me anyways.

I have no skin in this at all, but want to point out that comparing 20 year old narrow skis to current offerings is like comparing rocks to apples. Most 'new' skinny skis are longitudanally softer than 20 years ago AND torsionally stiffer... much easier to bend AND better edge grip. But yes, you're right. Today's wider skis outperform 20 year old narrow skis, too.

 

[Ken_R]

Do these qualify? I demoed them Today at LL. Narrow skis represented