Skis Getting Narrower -- Did Colorado Ski Shops Not Get the Message?

[LiquidFeet]

....
Why oh why do people feel like their choice of ski is the right choice of ski? ....

The phenomenon is called "Hasty Generalization Fallacy."

 

[Mike King]

Why oh why do people feel like their choice of ski is the right choice of ski?.

The point of this thread is not to dictate what people should be skiing on, but rather that there isn't even a choice for most people in Colorado to obtain a narrow ski. If it isn't in the rack, most consumers won't buy it. And if you can't demo it, then that's a limiter for many folk.

I won't be at Loveland this weekend for demo days, but my past experience is that it's virtually impossible to find a ski under 80 available for demo. And I don't know where one can actually demo a ski like a Blizzard Firebird in Colorado. Maybe there's somewhere, but I don't know of it.

Narrow skis reward and develop good technique, but if the public doesn't have easy access to obtain one...

Mike

 

[Wilhelmson]

It's more like if you ski groomers that aren't covered in soft snow your skis will sink into more than an inch, and want more enjoyment, get yourself some skinny carving skis. Bonus, you will be able to make tighter turns at higher speeds. No need to stick to blues or take lessons, just ski. Tip and rip.

Lol no duh Francois. Most of us used narrow skis for 20+ years and then found that wider skis are more versatile, even in the Northeast. Sadly my old Volkly P50s no longer hold and edge and in the last year I've bought new women's skis, new kids skis, used kids skis, new pricy kids boots, new mens boots, and a used ski condo. On Sunday my friend would beat me at the end of each run using SL skis, but he's better than me anyways.

 

[Ken_R]

The point of this thread is not to dictate what people should be skiing on, but rather that there isn't even a choice for most people in Colorado to obtain a narrow ski. If it isn't in the rack, most consumers won't buy it. And if you can't demo it, then that's a limiter for many folk.

I won't be at Loveland this weekend for demo days, but my past experience is that it's virtually impossible to find a ski under 80 available for demo. And I don't know where one can actually demo a ski like a Blizzard Firebird in Colorado. Maybe there's somewhere, but I don't know of it.

Narrow skis reward and develop good technique, but if the public doesn't have easy access to obtain one...

Mike

I find that in most places around here about 88mm is the narrowest you can find in most demo rental fleets.

 

[martyg]

The point of this thread is not to dictate what people should be skiing on, but rather that there isn't even a choice for most people in Colorado to obtain a narrow ski. If it isn't in the rack, most consumers won't buy it. And if you can't demo it, then that's a limiter for many folk.

I won't be at Loveland this weekend for demo days, but my past experience is that it's virtually impossible to find a ski under 80 available for demo. And I don't know where one can actually demo a ski like a Blizzard Firebird in Colorado. Maybe there's somewhere, but I don't know of it.

Narrow skis reward and develop good technique, but if the public doesn't have easy access to obtain one...

Mike

Agree with your general assessment. However, I have, unfortunately, been at Loveland for the Nov. demo. I found plenty of sub 80 skis to demo.

As far why CO shops are not carrying.... many buyers that I have spoken to are following BSRs. So they are following data from previous years.

The other condition that I find, people are stupid and lazy - in many regards. Plenty of data exists to guide prudent decisions, in many domains. However the general public would rather rely on their own short lived, and limited experience to guide decisions from ski width, to financial management, to what they eat, than relying on data.

I see that you are in Aspen. Say hi to Jennifer and Mr. MacArthur for me.

 

[Jacob]

I find that in most places around here about 88mm is the narrowest you can find in most demo rental fleets.

Is that the demo fleet for prospective buyers? Or, is it the rental fleet for those who are just looking for something to put on their feet for the week(end)?

If it's the demo fleet for prospective buyers, then it would make sense that they'd be the same skis as those on the sales wall.

 

[Jacob]

Narrow skis reward and develop good technique

I disagree with the second half of that statement, based on the number of bad skiers I've seen over the years on narrow skis.

 

[fatbob]

Is that the demo fleet for prospective buyers? Or, is it the rental fleet for those who are just looking for something to put on their feet for the week(end)?

If it's the demo fleet for prospective buyers, then it would make sense that they'd be the same skis as those on the sales wall.

Precisely - for a general rental fleet if I was looking to carry a single model for simplicity and bearing in mind I was both a) in Colorado and b) in the US I'd probably shoot for something mid 80 ish

(it matters
a)- reasaonable expectation of softish snow a lot of the time
b) a fair proportion of the rental crowd are likely to want to at least try some ungroomed trails)

For a proper demo fleet no point in demoing things you don't have to sell in some volume. But then the industry has murkified the meaning of demo to mean "high end rental" in a lot of cases.

 

[Seldomski]

Here's a case study I did in 5 minutes.

Town of Breckenridge, rental shop:
https://www.blueriversports.com/index.php

The beginner package features the K2 Strike, which is 70mm under foot.
The intermediate package features the Rossignol Experience 76 or Salomon XDR 76. Also <80mm.

If you want 'specialty' or demo skis, they are generally ~88 to 96mm all mountain choices and some powder oriented up to mid 100s.

Here's another:
https://rental.christysports.com/st...hristy-Sports-Breckenridge-Grand-Timber-Lodge

"Premium" skis: Head Natural Instinct 75, Head Pure Joy, K2 Ikonic 80, K2 Luvit, Rossignol Experience 80, Rossignol Temptation 77, Salomon QST 85, Salomon Myriad 85, Volkl RTM 8.0, Volkl Flair 8.0, or comparable

Sport package: Rossignol Pursuit 200, Rossignol Famous 2, Salomon X Drive, Salomon Kiana

So I'm not sure what type of 'narrow ski' should be available to rent? What are we missing? Do you think most would benefit from renting an atomic redster X9 with a 1/3 tune? My guess is no. The chance for injury seems really high. It may be possible to rent narrower high performance stuff, but you may have to call around to do so and arrange it in advance. I don't have much experience with doing this in US - it's possible to do this at Deer Valley, Aspen, and Whistler (last season anyway). I haven't checked anywhere else myself.

At most US resorts, you can rent the 'narrow' low performance stuff as long as you aren't selecting the 'demo' or highest end rentals.

 

[DanishRider]

I have been saying "wagons are the new cool" since the 90's...hasn't helped sales one bit. At least ski manufacturers are still making narrower skis.

Hope the wagons are still cool - just bought meself one ;-)

 

[Smear]

I am pretty sure @Jacob is skiing in Europe.

Yup in general "people who ski" will rent for their one week a year (taken as 6 consecutive days). In fact if you are doing the standard "having a ski holiday" you are probably looked upon as a bit of a weirdo keen bean if you buy your own skis. Such people are typically undemanding and just ski whatever the rental shop gives them, which nowadays is probably something around 75-80mm waist as that's where standard rental fleets seem to have ended up. What people don't generally do is then go out and buy a ski that is exactly the same as what they have just rented - there is no point, transport costs, tuning costs etc probably make it broadly breakeven.

Europe is a big country ;-) That sounds like UK? Here in Norway my impression is that renting gear is something almost only foreign tourist do. At my local resort you get a season pass for the whole family for 800$ . Then the whole family can ski as much they likes cost free for the ~5 months its open. Not even parking cost. Renting equipment for ONE SINGLE DAY for a family of 4 would cost 200$. And that would be for the lowest lowend stuff. Then you would need to add 180$ in day tickets top of that. Not many people are willing to burn that kind of money on a day of fun. If one has to rent gear and buy day tickets then skiing goes from being a "people's sport" to a ridiculously expensive $$$$ sport.

The average skier, as the average person you met on the slopes, has a season pass and own their own gear. But most don't seem to bother whether that gear is 5, 10 or 15 years old. And over here only industry people would have any idea what "indemnified" means... ;-)

My widest pair of skis are 125 mm. Bought 9 years ago after a period where skis where getting wider and wider each year and all people around me where buying Volkl Sumo, K2 pontoon, Darksides and Megawatts. Felt like it made sense to buy the widest, so that they where not made "obsolete" by next season. Somehow most of the market stabilized on more modest dimensions just after that.... Will probably never buy a pair of skis that wide ever again ;-) My least used pair in the quiver, but surprisingly versatile in any kind of soft snow where there are more snow than tracks. Most of the time I ski on 65mm waist skis.

 

[fatbob]

Europe is a big country ;-) That sounds like UK? Here in Norway

Granted but you are a local and not a one week a year ski holidaymaker which is more typical of Brits, Irish, Danes, Northern Germans, French, Dutch, Belgians etc. People who have season passes for sure are not renting their skis each time. Plus the Scandis have been at the forefront of European freeride big skis - Freddie Syversen etc

 

[fatbob]

Hope the wagons are still cool - just bought meself one ;-)

Phil was born on the wrong continent...

 

[Doug Briggs]

Nope. No skinny skis for sale.

 

[Doug Briggs]

And apropos of nothing, black is the new black.

 

[David Chaus]

Black is back?

 

[Doug Briggs]

Back in black.

 

[geepers]

This discussion been going a while...

 

[Josh Matta]

You asked why retailers weren't going narrower. I think a big part of this is because for many people -- last years epic snow was more fun on fat skis. Especially for the Frangers who have the good luck to choose their ski days.

Very few people in Boulder are buying a ski with a second thought about improving their technique -- which yeah--wide skis aren't good at. Most are buying what they either know to be fun from experience or what their friends/retailers tell them is fun.

The thing I would rather a student make mistake in soft snow on big skis and stay up, than get owned when they try to decide to push their tail on their sub 80mm ski as they catch.

 

[Josh Matta]

The point of this thread is not to dictate what people should be skiing on, but rather that there isn't even a choice for most people in Colorado to obtain a narrow ski. If it isn't in the rack, most consumers won't buy it. And if you can't demo it, then that's a limiter for many folk.

I won't be at Loveland this weekend for demo days, but my past experience is that it's virtually impossible to find a ski under 80 available for demo. And I don't know where one can actually demo a ski like a Blizzard Firebird in Colorado. Maybe there's somewhere, but I don't know of it.

Narrow skis reward and develop good technique, but if the public doesn't have easy access to obtain one...

Mike

I think you should add on packed snow. I have always held the belief that in 3d snow, especially wet,heavy, wind slab, upside down snow 100 percent of skier will be held back on skinny skis. Skiing skinny skis on weird condition tends to make people do weird movements that are different than groomer skiing. I see no point in that or the extra effort.

Also the early comment about their being no need for anything larger than 98mm in colorado is probably true, snow is lighter and tends to be less funk, with that said no one "needs" to ski, and many wider skis would be more fun on many day. there are days here that you do need a wide ski to actually ski everywhere. on the windslabbed days I am generally skiing alone because almost no one here skis that stuff or even has a ski to ski that stuff. In fact the shitty 3d snow have become my favorite days to ski because I get untracked snow all day long with no competition. I am sure you can on 98mm ski since you are so skillful though.