Skiing With Ankle Fusion?

[surfandski]

Thanks everyone for the comments. That makes sense about a stiffer boot on my healthy foot as the Lange RS 130 feels really soft compared to the race boots I used back in the 90s before my hiatus. Would it be foolish to consider a softer boot like my 130 or even a 120 on my bad ankle and a plug on my healthy one? My bad ankle (right foot) has always been 5mm longer than my left. I wish it was the other way around because I'd really love to go up one size on my bad foot as it's currently 8mm shell fit vs 13mm on my good left foot which seems to be perfect.

I just don't want to have to buy two new pairs of boots to get a stiffer one on my left. When buying plugs, is it possible to buy just one? If I am able to keep using my RS130 on my fused ankle, what would be a good stiffer boot to pair with it? Stick with the same Lange plastic for similar flex pattern or not a big deal?

This is assuming I'm better off going stiffer all around. If the injury will hold me back and Im not skiing powerfully enough to drive the stiffer setup, plan B would be keep the RS130 on my healthy left foot (which fits perfect) and go with a softer and slightly larger (or just a more squared off toe box like Salomon uses as it's not the length but the rounded inside of the toe box that's the issue) boot for my gimpy foot.

 

[Josh Matta]

There is no reason for anyone with proper boot alignment to ski with a softer boot..... you shouldnt have to flex your boots, and when they do flex its product of the ski and boot pushing against you, not you pushing against the boot.

 

[surfandski]

There is no reason for anyone with proper boot alignment to ski with a softer boot..... you shouldnt have to flex your boots, and when they do flex its product of the ski and boot pushing against you, not you pushing against the boot.

That's goes with my experience so far. I've definitely demoed boots that were too soft but have yet to ski one that I felt was too stiff.

So to clarify, am I better off looking for stiffer boots for both feet or if I can get my fused foot in my RS130, just go stiffer on my healthy foot to bring them closer in flex, or lack thereof? Like 150 on my good foot and the 130 on my bad? I'm 6' 190lbs if that helps. My guess is I couldn't get my fused ankle into a stiffer boot and may struggle with the RS130. That blue plastic does soften up nicely in a heated boot bag though.

 

[Josh Matta]

stiffer for both, besides getting a boot on aand off you do not ankles to ski assuming the boot supports you enough.


Try a Kr2 if you ankle is fused, its a 3 piece that can be made as stiff as most plug boot.

 

[surfandski]

stiffer for both, besides getting a boot on aand off you do not ankles to ski assuming the boot supports you enough.


Try a Kr2 if you ankle is fused, its a 3 piece that can be made as stiff as most plug boot.

Would you say the same about the Pantera 130 that PT mentioned? The Kr 2 is a 98mm last which I'm pretty sure would be too low volume as my RS130 wide are 100mm and still took a ton of work to get them comfortably tight. The Pantera looks like it's a 100-102mm which sounds like it would be perfect if it can also be made stiffer than 130. I have no experience with Dalbello (or any 3 piece boots) and don't see the Kr 2 in their current line so I'm not sure if it's purely the tongue that get changed out to stiffen them or if the design was different from their newer boots. Can you explain what gets changed when stiffening these? Thanks!

 

[Josh Matta]

Kr2 can be blown out and is much more boot than the Pantera....

The New Kr2 130 is different plastic than the older boot(kr2 pro), if you need bottom of the boot aligment find an older pair of the pros as they have a rampable and cantable soul.

My foot is 110mm wide and a blown out Kr2 pro fits for skiing fine.

 

[Susie]

I hope you heal up fast @surfandski!

It's hard to believe it has been over 18 months now since my ankle fusion. I wish I could say it's been easy, and I wish I could say that the results have been worth it. While the fusion has healed well, I developed a nerve condition while in the cast, which has left my life a bit in upheaval. Skiing is one of the few things I still enjoy, but the rigors of life and work have kept me off the snow much of the season.

Since the fusion, I have been skiing with outriggers. My fused ankle leg is still partially numb and while my control has gotten better, I don't want to risk injury to my good leg. The outriggers provide a bit of stability, confidence, and durability. I have definitely noticed that I need a bit more "play" in my ski system so to speak. If the connection to the snow is too rigid (think stiff skis and plug boot), all the forces translate up the leg to my knee and hip, which are both weakened due to managing the injury for so many years. Also, soft snow is king! I don't necessarily prefer fresh snow anymore, especially the heavier stuff we get here in Tahoe. Soft spring snow is far more comfy than traditional winter pack.

Boots... before fusion, I was skiing a Lange XJ+ World Cup plug boot, a very low-volume boot. After fusion, I went back to my older (teaching) Lange RS120 boot with an intuition liner. The liner was new and the shell had about 100 days on it last spring. Now, it's got 150. I started having some trouble with the liner at about 30 days (too loose), but used some neoprene shims to tighten things back up. I tried getting back in my plug boot. The ankle fit fine, but I found the very snug boot didn't allow any translation and experienced some resultant knee and hip pain, not to mention some ankle hardware bang. Thus, a solid, stiff boot is essential post fusion. However, I recommend making sure there is some room to move around as well. This is probably more of a "standard" performance fit, versus the high performance fit I was used to. I thought I would have had to buy a new boot, but my old one is perfect. My bootfitter agrees to focus on managing the inside of the boot, and we'll move to a new shell when needed.

Skis... no new boots required, but I needed new skis instead. Stiff skis are not good with a fusion (especially when combined with a plug boot!), thus I purchased a new all-mountain ski with less stiffness and with a bit more frontside bias. I need a new powder ski too, but I'm not sure I'll ever really enjoy, at least not our, Tahoe version of powder. I figure until I'm not using outriggers or are truly back to all-mountain skiing, the carving and all-mountain skis will be enough. If I travel to the land of fluffy, I'll just rent.

Cold... my leg does not like the cold. So much metal means a frequent ice-cream-headache of the lower leg, anytime temps drop below 40deg. Thus, I'm using boot heaters all the time. I switched from Hotronic to Sidas, because the Sidas heating element was much thinner... the fused foot is really sensitive to uneven surfaces.

On mountain performance... when my boot is snug but not tight and the skis are solid but lively, I can ski really well. You add deep or firm snow and a lot of bumps, the skiing falls off a lot. Still, I feel better out on the snow than anywhere else

 

[surfandski]

I hope you heal up fast @surfandski!

It's hard to believe it has been over 18 months now since my ankle fusion. I wish I could say it's been easy, and I wish I could say that the results have been worth it. While the fusion has healed well, I developed a nerve condition while in the cast, which has left my life a bit in upheaval. Skiing is one of the few things I still enjoy, but the rigors of life and work have kept me off the snow much of the season.

Since the fusion, I have been skiing with outriggers. My fused ankle leg is still partially numb and while my control has gotten better, I don't want to risk injury to my good leg. The outriggers provide a bit of stability, confidence, and durability. I have definitely noticed that I need a bit more "play" in my ski system so to speak. If the connection to the snow is too rigid (think stiff skis and plug boot), all the forces translate up the leg to my knee and hip, which are both weakened due to managing the injury for so many years. Also, soft snow is king! I don't necessarily prefer fresh snow anymore, especially the heavier stuff we get here in Tahoe. Soft spring snow is far more comfy than traditional winter pack.

Boots... before fusion, I was skiing a Lange XJ+ World Cup plug boot, a very low-volume boot. After fusion, I went back to my older (teaching) Lange RS120 boot with an intuition liner. The liner was new and the shell had about 100 days on it last spring. Now, it's got 150. I started having some trouble with the liner at about 30 days (too loose), but used some neoprene shims to tighten things back up. I tried getting back in my plug boot. The ankle fit fine, but I found the very snug boot didn't allow any translation and experienced some resultant knee and hip pain, not to mention some ankle hardware bang. Thus, a solid, stiff boot is essential post fusion. However, I recommend making sure there is some room to move around as well. This is probably more of a "standard" performance fit, versus the high performance fit I was used to. I thought I would have had to buy a new boot, but my old one is perfect. My bootfitter agrees to focus on managing the inside of the boot, and we'll move to a new shell when needed.

Skis... no new boots required, but I needed new skis instead. Stiff skis are not good with a fusion (especially when combined with a plug boot!), thus I purchased a new all-mountain ski with less stiffness and with a bit more frontside bias. I need a new powder ski too, but I'm not sure I'll ever really enjoy, at least not our, Tahoe version of powder. I figure until I'm not using outriggers or are truly back to all-mountain skiing, the carving and all-mountain skis will be enough. If I travel to the land of fluffy, I'll just rent.

Cold... my leg does not like the cold. So much metal means a frequent ice-cream-headache of the lower leg, anytime temps drop below 40deg. Thus, I'm using boot heaters all the time. I switched from Hotronic to Sidas, because the Sidas heating element was much thinner... the fused foot is really sensitive to uneven surfaces.

On mountain performance... when my boot is snug but not tight and the skis are solid but lively, I can ski really well. You add deep or firm snow and a lot of bumps, the skiing falls off a lot. Still, I feel better out on the snow than anywhere else

Thanks for all of the info Susie! I'm glad your feeling good when skiing but sorry about the other complications. Do you know what may have caused the nerve issues?

So you had no issues getting into your Langes? That's encouraging. I made many visits to the boot fitter in Breck over the past 2 seasons and finally got my boots dialed in for all day comfort so the thought of starting over trying to get new boots dialed in is dreadful given different my 2 feet are. Problem is I know 130 will not be stiff enough flex so unless they can somehow stiffen these up with additional rivets, I think I'm going to have to look for new boots.

 

[surfandski]

Kr2 can be blown out and is much more boot than the Pantera....

The New Kr2 130 is different plastic than the older boot(kr2 pro), if you need bottom of the boot aligment find an older pair of the pros as they have a rampable and cantable soul.

My foot is 110mm wide and a blown out Kr2 pro fits for skiing fine.

Ok so the Krypton 130 is the new version of the Kr2 and you feel it is more substantial than the Panterra? Any specifics? Can those stiffer A tongues be bought or have they been discontinued? From what info I could gather, Dalbello stopped making them as the stiff plastic was brittle and would crack.

 

[surfandski]

@Susie You mentioned needing to be able to move around a bit in your boots. Can you explain that better when talking about your Lange RS 120 which seem to be working for you? Are you talking about needing the heel to be able to come up a bit to give more effective "ROM"? My RS 130 are very much a performance fit so I don't get hardly any movement in there but I did notice the stock liners are starting to pack out a bit so that was changing at the end of the season. I think that the 130 is too soft for me (pre fusion and now even more so post fusion) so I'm going to try to stiffen them up some with Zipfit liners and a Nordica Direct Drive front Spoiler but I know Zipfits are known to completely lock in the heel but are also customizeable back there so if necessary, maybe I can remove enough OMfit back there to let my heal slip a bit if necessary. Or plan B could be to use the Zipfit on my healthy ankle to help stiffen up that stronger side and keep the stock Lange liner on my fused ankle as that was starting to pack out a bit and maybe give enough ankle slippage if I keep the buckles loose. The other question I have for you is when you are skiing the most aggressive you have since your fusion, how does flex come into play? With your 120s (much stiffer equivalent than me on my 130s at 190 lbs) are you flexing them to the end of your fused ankle's ROM? Overall, in your experience would you say skiing with a fused ankle requires extremely stiff boots to make sure you never flex until your fused ankle "hits the wall" or do you find a little, or moderate flex is desirable? This may be one situation where the proverbial, "go see a boot fitter" may not bring the desired outcome by itself because there seems to be several plans of attach from a medium flex but allowing the heel to slide up and down inside the boot (sounds like blister central) to uber stiff setups where the heel is locked in place and you never bottom out at the end of the ankle's ROM. I'm curious what your thoughts are on this. Thanks!

@Josh Matta I've spent a good bit of time reading up everything I can on the Dalbello Kryptons. It appears that most people are choosing these for their long/smooth flex pattern which is why a lot of people skiing park love them to absorb the big hits. However, I've read several comments from people saying that this Cabrio style isn't good for people with limited ROM because the very nature of them is to start soft in the first part of their flex and then flex well past what an 130 overlap boot would do before hitting the wall. Can you comment on that and your experience with the 3 piece design? The consensus seems to be from calling a ton of Dalbello dealers that they no longer make a stiffer A tongue so it seems that 130-140 is the absolute stiffest I could make a Krypton. I'm not opposed to spending the money to try one out but can you give me more information to back up your earlier comment that the Krypton can be made to flex as stiff as a plug boot? I hope that's the case as I'd love a boot that is both stiffer, and easier to get in and out of, than my Lange. I also love how easy it is to customize the flex on these swapping out tongues and flex plugs inside the boot. I've read several comments from people saying that those flex plugs in the boot change the flex and take away some of that long, smooth flex in the boot which sounds like what I need. Can you confirm if the Kr2 Pro/Krypton 130 is 130ish with the B tongue BUT without the flex plug in the boot which means adding the flex plug makes it even stiffer or if what they call the 130 has the B tongue and the flex plugs installed to essentially make it as stiff as it can be (short of stumbling upon the fabled unicorn A tongues).

Thanks so much!

 

[princo]

I have the Full Tilt Descendants (102mm). There's a 10 Flex tongue available for this boot. In a cabrio the upper/rear piece is kind of floating, so the stiffness comes from the tongue. If you are interested in stiffening this type of boot even more (and I think with Dalbello as well), you can potentially drill a hole and bolt/lock the rear piece of the boot to the lower piece so that cuff is not floating and and get resistance from the spine. I think it will be noticeable. You can also get the shock absorbing rubberized boot board to soften the impact as well. If you come back to Denver, Larry's in Boulder and Evo in Denver carry both Dalbello and Full Tilt, so you can check those out.

 

[Bergie]

Hello skiers who are about to have an ankle fusion. Sorry for my english as i am a french native. I read most of all the posts and I wonder why no one mention the TAR instead of the fusion. Better try the TAR first and if..you still have pain then You get the fusion. Tar is for total ankle replacement. Same as the orthopedics does with shoulder, hips and knees. I had it and i am also a skier. Because i had wait to long before, my achill tendon is unable to strech a lot. If you ankle still bent but a lot of pain, go with the TAR. No pain after and you will regain your mobility.
I did nit know how to remove the picture belows. So please just ignore them.

 

[Bergie]

I forgot to mention that i have no idea how much it cost as in Quebec we do have an universal insurance free. It might cost a lot though!

 

[Bergie]

On my side i do have a question. Now it is my big toe that gave me a lot of pain. I got a cartiva 8 month ago ( a piece of silicone has been put in my toe to stop the rubbling in between the two bone. The pain is worst then before. So now, my orthopedist is talking about a fusion of the big toe. I am scare as my ankle is already nit moving much. Is anybody of you have both. Not a fusion but almost of my ankle and the toe fusion. Can you still ski, treckking, doing many sports ?..

 

[Bergie]