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Skiing inbounds with a beacon?

alaskaskierdad

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We are leaving tomorrow for a family ski trip to St. Anton, Austria. A patroller friend advised that you should ski with a beacon at all times in Europe due to the size of the inbounds terrain and different philosophy of patrolling and avy control that put more onus on the skier to avoid hazards.

Any one have any insight on this?

I'm now wondering if I should be skiing with a beacon at all times even at home?
 

Alexzn

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No one stops you from skiing with a beacon at home. In reality, it depends on the balance of convenience and perceived avalanche safety risk. In the US most of the inbounds terrain is managed, meaning that ski patrol makes a sustained and deliberate effort to prevent avalanches anywhere within the resort boundary. In Europe the resorts are so big that they they only manage the piste terrain and the terrain directly above that piste. My impression is that if you ski off-piste anywhere in Europe (and on a typical european day unless you like to stick to the groomers you will go off-piste) you are assuming the risk, that's why a beacon is a prudent thing to have. In the US I mostly see people wearing beacons in the backcountry and on big days in Western resorts where a rogue avalanche can be (a remote) possibility. So, it depends on how and where you ski.
 

SkiNurse

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There is no reason you shouldn't ski with a beacon and many good ones for skiing with a beacon always.
Agree. There have been times the conditions inbounds warranted wearing a beacon, especially since I prefer to ski offpiste. I have several friends that ALWAYS wear a heir beacons.
 

ErikL

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The beacon only benefits you inbounds if other people know that you're wearing and using it, though. I don't ski with a beacon, but during and after big storms I do use my avalung inbounds (mostly for tree wells -- I'm not too concerned about big slides after patrol has done their work). At my home mountain (Mt. Rose), the chutes often slide and patrol does their best to bomb any possible slides before skiers can trigger them. However, nothing is foolproof and they do recommend a beacon if you're skiing the chutes. I've seen people wearing beacons inbounds there and I would consider it too if I already had a beacon for BC use. But I'm not about to dish out beacon $$$$ for very limited use strictly inbounds.
 

Jeff N

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If you have a beacon, there is no reason not to use it on any day where avalanche risk and treewells are a factor. I certainly don't wear mine every day.

As for how many people are skiing with a beacon, you may be surprised. On a good number of powder days around here, I've clicked mine over top search in lift lines of maybe 40 people, and had my beacon report 4+ signals (the most my beacon can report), with no patrollers visible in range. That means at least 1 in 10 are wearing a beacon and possibly more.

Even if you are wearing a beacon and none of your friends are (assuming you ski avalanche/tree well terrain with friends, which is probably more important than wearing a beacon), patrol is going to have a beacon and has at least a sporting change of locating you and getting you out in the 15 minute window. If they have to get on site and then set up a probe line, things are a lot more dire.

As for whether this is an academic concern, this is earlier this year.


Full disclosure, I had my beacon in my pack and off when this slide happened. I packed it that day and then never bothered to bring it out. Dumb. :doh:

That is the 3rd inbounds avalanche I have kicked off in the past decade, and it was by far the smallest. Probably not enough to bury me, but it had a good chance of bouncing me off a tree or wrenching me up pretty good. The other two were more than enough to bury me. One fractured right at my skis and I fell uphill against the crown, the other I was right at the edge of the slab when it broke and it again didn't get me. The largest had a 40' crown about 2-3 feet deep and ran into tight trees.
 

fatbob

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If you're in Yurp and you want to go off groomer then you should be beeping. Strictly speaking you also be carrying probe, shovel and be actively evaluating Avy hazard as there are no guarantees.

I'll beep inbounds on big days in the US. Not that I don't trust patrol but shit happens and at least you can assist in an incident.
 

UGASkiDawg

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If you have a beacon, there is no reason not to use it on any day where avalanche risk and treewells are a factor. I certainly don't wear mine every day.

As for how many people are skiing with a beacon, you may be surprised. On a good number of powder days around here, I've clicked mine over top search in lift lines of maybe 40 people, and had my beacon report 4+ signals (the most my beacon can report), with no patrollers visible in range. That means at least 1 in 10 are wearing a beacon and possibly more.

Even if you are wearing a beacon and none of your friends are (assuming you ski avalanche/tree well terrain with friends, which is probably more important than wearing a beacon), patrol is going to have a beacon and has at least a sporting change of locating you and getting you out in the 15 minute window. If they have to get on site and then set up a probe line, things are a lot more dire.

As for whether this is an academic concern, this is earlier this year.


Full disclosure, I had my beacon in my pack and off when this slide happened. I packed it that day and then never bothered to bring it out. Dumb. :doh:

That is the 3rd inbounds avalanche I have kicked off in the past decade, and it was by far the smallest. Probably not enough to bury me, but it had a good chance of bouncing me off a tree or wrenching me up pretty good. The other two were more than enough to bury me. One fractured right at my skis and I fell uphill against the crown, the other I was right at the edge of the slab when it broke and it again didn't get me. The largest had a 40' crown about 2-3 feet deep and ran into tight trees.


I know you are lying...there are never 40 people in line at WC;)
 

Jeff N

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I know you are lying...there are never 40 people in line at WC;)

Yeah, that is pretty rare. But it is pretty common for about that number of people to be milling around the Alberta base between people resting, eating lunch, and using the fine restroom facilities/ice cold porta potties.

My point was that I have always been surprised at how many hits I get. If somebody is wearing a beacon properly, you can't tell, so those assuming that nobody around them has one may be wrong if they aren't seeing what shows up in search mode.
 

dustyfog

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In St. Anton if you will only stay on piste, a beacon is not mandatory nor necessary but a good thing to have on you at all times. This allows you the option of veering off every now and then. And there are parts of the terrain inbounds on-piste in the Arlberg which are in direct line-of-fire avalanche terrain. If you ski off the Valluga backside, beacon is mandatory, and any ski route, beacon is again mandatory but you have to self-enforce, no one is checking unless you need it going active, and then rubber meets the road so to speak ! If you join ski school, generally in a group lesson, they will take you off-piste and they will give you a beacon.

This was a trip to the French Alps and throughout, every day, every minute the 12 year old had a beacon as did Dad. The ski school mandated it, and once on, it became 2nd nature and we checked they were active in stations on tops of lifts before dropping off-piste. Avalanche terrain is everywhere, get the beacon, turn it on, all the time when you ski there. You have nothing to lose and everything to gain.
https://forum.pugski.com/threads/go...sere-guide-12-yo-manhattan-born-and-bred.537/
 

Monique

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I wear a beacon in-bounds in the US all the time. It removes the need to make a decision, and as others have said, way better to be beeping and not need it than the reverse. For those who already own one, it's just the cost of batteries, and it reinforces a good habit.

When I leave it open to a decision that day, all sorts of factors come into play - including, unfortunately, whether other people are beeping and whether they'll think I'm being silly for wearing it. I've found I'm likely to leave it stashed, then realize later in the day that I should have had it.

It's not that I think it will magically save me. It's just one more small chance for things to go better than they could. And if I'm unconscious in the trees, patrol could still find me in places where I can't be seen.

If you're in Yurp and you want to go off groomer then you should be beeping. Strictly speaking you also be carrying probe, shovel and be actively evaluating Avy hazard as there are no guarantees.

I'll beep inbounds on big days in the US. Not that I don't trust patrol but shit happens and at least you can assist in an incident.

Yeah, your first comment was my first thought - don't just wear a beacon and think everything will be fine. If the slopes aren't controlled, you need to know what the reports are and what to do. How do typical European skiers handle this?

The point about being able to assist is good, although I have to be honest - I don't carry probe and shovel inbounds. But at least you could help find the person.
 

crgildart

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There are a couple places in the US with in boundary beacon required terrain. Some of those places actually rent them. Try posting in the EuroZone forum and see what the thoughts are from folks that live near those places well if the answers above that recommend still have you waffling.
 

SBrown

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Yeah, your first comment was my first thought - don't just wear a beacon and think everything will be fine. If the slopes aren't controlled, you need to know what the reports are and what to do. How do typical European skiers handle this?

I'm not typical or European, but on our three trips, in addition to beeping, we used guides every day. When you are off piste, there are more things to worry about than avalanches. Things like crevasses and white-outs and the like; if you want to explore, it's a pretty good idea to have someone with you.
 

Ken_R

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I guess skiing with a beacon inbounds is not a bad idea but really it will only help people find your (lifeless) body faster in the case you fall inside a tree well or are buried by an avalanche unless you are skiing with a buddy and he/she sees you get into trouble (or someone else sees you). If alone a SPOT device might be even more useful.
 

oldschoolskier

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Generally not skiing in areas which are risky (more a matter of access vs choice), something I never really considered. But seeing the comments and the potential advantages its not such a bad idea.
 

SBrown

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I guess skiing with a beacon inbounds is not a bad idea but really it will only help people find your (lifeless) body faster in the case you fall inside a tree well or are buried by an avalanche unless you are skiing with a buddy and he/she sees you get into trouble (or someone else sees you). If alone a SPOT device might be even more useful.

Well, mostly, yeah. But there are patrollers all over the mountain with gear, and depending on where it happens, they could be there pretty quick. I seem to remember that the Toilet Bowl avalanche in JH was seen by patrollers and the victim was found in less than 10 min ... he still died, but that is within a reasonable time to survive a (survivable) slide.
 
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alaskaskierdad

alaskaskierdad

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Thanks all for the lively discussion. Seems the consensus is tilting toward skiing with a beacon, so with snow in the forecast I forked out $1200 so the whole family will be beeping across the Alps. Ouch!!, but better safe than sorry in my book. Guess I'll have to dial back the beer budget. We also hired a guide for several days per the suggestions here. I'll let you know how it goes.
 

Monique

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Thanks all for the lively discussion. Seems the consensus is tilting toward skiing with a beacon, so with snow in the forecast I forked out $1200 so the whole family will be beeping across the Alps. Ouch!!, but better safe than sorry in my book. Guess I'll have to dial back the beer budget. We also hired a guide for several days per the suggestions here. I'll let you know how it goes.

So much cheaper than growing a new kid, though.
 

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