Skiing Hit-n-Run at Breck

[Coach13]

I keep checking into this thread hoping to read that this family was found and charged for leaving the scene of an accident.

I think many of us are doing the same with a similar hope.

 

[Bruuuce]

I had a friend come into town yesterday who is a solid intermediate so we focused on the easier blues in Steamboat. I was almost hit twice. Once by a skier who was making turns and not even looking up. I was literally standing still and would have been wiped out had I not moved. I saw it coming a mile away. The second was a teenager who was in his interpretation of the Bode Miller tuck who couldn't ski to save his life. I was skiing slowly to stay with my friend. After that I started skiing faster and encouraging him to do the same. Yes, wide open blue runs are where I always have my head on a swivel. Steep tree runs are so much safer.

 

[Bruuuce]

And to anyone in this thread arguing that "we don't know the whole story", I couldn't disagree more. You NEVER leave an accident until you see the other person ski away. Period.

 

[skibob]

I cannot stand parent here locally who drop their kids off at the hill who have no idea how to ski and then watch those kids straight down the hill out of control just hoping they don't hit anyone without any basic skiing skills. Get your kids a lesson or keep them on the bunny hill until they know the basics.

Years ago I was in a lesson (standing on side talking to instructor) when my instructor's eyes got real big and she yelled "look . . .!" But it was too late, I'd been mowed down by ~10yr sitting on his skis straightlining out of control. She marched him into the lodge found his mother and told her he wasn't getting on the mountain alone again until he had at least 3 lessons. Stupid mother apparently starts yelling at her that she bought a season pass for him and she has rights! Instructor cut her off and gave the kid a lifetime ban. She said she hated to do it to the kid (and he could appeal when he turns 18 if he can demonstrate a basic level of ability) but the mother clearly was not going to take responsibility.

She was a badass and a great instructor. But there seems to generally be too little policing (not that bans should be handed out left and right either). Oh, and no, I wasn't hurt. I had a soft landing. On the kid. That may have been punishment enough, but no, he wasn't hurt either.

I feel the same way to a certain extent. I don’t expect resorts to install cameras everywhere or hire tons of extra slope monitors to police things. That said, when the mountain staff (patrollers, mountain hosts, lifties, etc) see grossly unsafe behavior they have a responsibility to address it imo. I think even the awareness that there will be consequences will help. I think the resorts could also place a person here and there in crowded areas where a history of issues and I think in some cases do. At the end of the day though, slope safety is up to us. Really, the only thing I took exception go in this case was the departure of the parties involved.

Regardless of resort and skier efforts though, a certain number of these things will certainly continue to occur. I think the best we can hope for is to increase awareness of the issue.

I once saw a patroller hidden in a clump of trees just above a ski school area. It was the run out of a halfway decent blue groomer but there were "Slow Down" and "Ski School" signs everywhere. I sensed something interesting was about to happen so I pulled up and observed. Sure enough, some hotshot went blazing through the ski school at mach stupid, using the little penguins almost like gates. Patroller dropped in and gave hot pursuit, albeit around the ski school through ungroomed side territory. I don't know what happened (he did catch him). I imagine hotshot had been doing this for awhile. I imagine instructors had yelled at him w/ no effect, and called patrol.

 

[pchewn]

I keep checking into this thread hoping to read that this family was found and charged for leaving the scene of an accident.

(10) No skier involved in a collision with another skier or person in which an injury results shall leave the vicinity of the collision before giving his or her name and current address to an employee of the ski area operator or a member of the ski patrol, except for the purpose of securing aid for a person injured in the collision; in which event the person so leaving the scene of the collision shall give his or her name and current address as required by this subsection (10) after securing such aid.

(12) Any person who violates any of the provisions of subsection (3), (9), (10), or (11) of this section is guilty of a class 2 petty offense and, upon conviction thereof, shall be punished by a fine of not more than one thousand dollars.

Well, there you go. If the potential fine for leaving the scene is $1000, but the potential settlement for staying and giving your information is $100K to $1M, the incentive is built into the system to favor leaving the scene and not giving information.

 

[Doug Briggs]

Not to make light of the seriousness of the incident provoking this thread, but...

The problem of skier safety isn't new.


https://france3-regions.francetvinf...rLH2dxwKbw9VN1rvRwxrLAFUug6haZgD6GBHQAnqJtfrc

 

[RJS]

I think the idea that the resorts are even capable of solving it is nuts, unless a totalitarian state is implemented.

I don't want to speak for others, but I have no expectation that resorts are capable of completely solving this problem. I do expect that many resorts are capable of taking more proactive measures to make this a bit less of a problem. It's more about moving the needle and raising awareness than anything else. Resorts can't change fundamental human behavior, but they can help change people's incentives.

Having less tolerance for people violating the Skier Responsibility Code by pulling more passes from out of control skiers would be a step in the right direction (let's also note here that with multi-resort passes becoming more common, having your Epic/Ikon pass yanked or getting banned from a whole family of resorts is actually pretty bad for you vs. just having a day ticket revoked). Having staff ("yellow jackets") actively monitor a few select "family zone" areas or major trail intersections on weekends/holidays would be a step in the right direction. Maybe even having a few cameras again at a handful of "family zone" areas or major trail intersections to watch for this type of behavior could be helpful? Would any of these solutions completely solve the problem? No. But maybe they would result in some decrease in this kind of activity.

 

[SBrown]

I don't want to speak for others, but I have no expectation that resorts are capable of completely solving this problem. I do expect that many resorts are capable of taking more proactive measures to make this a bit less of a problem. It's more about moving the needle and raising awareness than anything else. Resorts can't change fundamental human behavior, but they can help change people's incentives.

Having less tolerance for people violating the Skier Responsibility Code by pulling more passes from out of control skiers would be a step in the right direction (let's also note here that with multi-resort passes becoming more common, having your Epic/Ikon pass yanked or getting banned from a whole family of resorts is actually pretty bad for you vs. just having a day ticket revoked). Having staff ("yellow jackets") actively monitor a few select "family zone" areas or major trail intersections on weekends/holidays would be a step in the right direction. Maybe even having a few cameras again at a handful of "family zone" areas or major trail intersections to watch for this type of behavior could be helpful? Would any of these solutions completely solve the problem? No. But maybe they would result in some decrease in this kind of activity.

I wonder if this makes them more reluctant to do so. Usually, or so I've heard, you get a hold put on your pass for a couple weeks, but that isn't necessarily the worst thing for the offender.

 

[tch]

BIG off-topic note: Anyone else regularly amazed at how little clothes folks wore back in the day? (noting video Doug Briggs posted). Many old photos show people skiing in sweaters, wool pants, and little else -- no hats, etc. Were people just that more hard-ass then? Take a look at today's skiers and you can hardly determine a human form under the layers of fleece, Gore-Tex, and helmets.

 

[Doug Briggs]

Just an educated guess, but I would think that an area could block your multi-area pass at their area, but not the others on the pass.

 

[tinymoose]

Yeah the straightlining thing is beyond ridiculous. Seems to be moving East. I encountered one sat. Towards the bottom, maybe 200 yards to the lift a green blue trail that most beginners take, is crowded and has choke points everywhere. It is also return to the lodge. I'm skiing with one student. I usually ski with my head on a swivel. This guy I didn't see at all. Maybe because he was doing 40+ straightlining and he wasn't in the field of view. He whizzed right behind me. I could feel the air. If he hit a lift tower I would of testified he deserved it. If he'd hit someone he absolutely should've been prosecuted.

Once again 30+ male. Honestly I'm so sick of these guys. I really don't care how cool you are buzzing kids on your Enforcers. Go ski somewhere challenging.

Seems to be moving East? I'm not sure about other places, but Blue Mountain here in PA is a shit show nearly always. I got hit years ago by a snowboarder who had fallen straight-lining it (he then fell and took me out like a bowling pin... big dude). Luckily, I was no worse off other than I was in shock a bit and my back was sore for a few weeks (he was sliding on his back after he fell with his board in the air and the board hit me square in the back). But even last Thursday while we were having race clinic, you had people really not in control straight-lining the same black run I was hit on (Main Street). It's a big reason I don't like going there anymore, except for race clinic.

 

[Wolfski]

When my Wife was brushed by a rider (she bailed to avoid full contact) and asked him why wasn't he paying attention to the skier he was overtaking his response was "Don't you know that I have a blind spot on my backside?" Seriously, and went on to explain why.

I know the "Skiers Code" applies to all on the Mountain but everyone on the Mountain isn't a Skier or better yet how many on the Mountain have absolutely no clue to what the Skiers Code is or that there is one.

As far as pulling a Pass on a group Epic, Ikon, etc. I would think that once that pass is pulled its pulled, period. Kicking someone dangerous off Breck and then allowing them to Ski at another resort of theirs could just open up a large can of legal

 

[James]

Seems to be moving East? I'm not sure about other places, but Blue Mountain here in PA is a shit show nearly always. I got hit years ago by a snowboarder who had fallen straight-lining it (he then fell and took me out like a bowling pin... big dude). Luckily, I was no worse off other than I was in shock a bit and my back was sore for a few weeks (he was sliding on his back after he fell with his board in the air and the board hit me square in the back). But even last Thursday while we were having race clinic, you had people really not in control straight-lining the same black run I was hit on (Main Street). It's a big reason I don't like going there anymore, except for race clinic.

Yes, should have used New England. It's not been common at all. I'm not counting straight ski days of yore.
Look at the brightside, Blue is still better than Tennesee.

 

[headybrew]

Since everyone is posting their stories here...

I saw a guy at Winter Park yesterday ski in-between two kids maybe 5-6 years old towards the end of the day on Roundhouse. The only ones on the run were myself, the kids with a parent, and this douche bag. Roundhouse is literally 80 yards wide at that point and the guy used the kids like gates on a racecourse or a terrain feature. He wasn't necessarily going too fast but the fact remains he could have taken a much safer route around them. Humans are not gates and the cat is not a weapon!

 

[moreoutdoorYuri]

taking roundturns comment further - it is an accurate reflection of the general state of our society...
mirrored in so many other ways...
'resort skiing' has become more 'amusement park', attracting a broader range of 'type'
it's very easy for me to 'transfer' this scenario from skiing to a road ride on the bike - happens way more than it has in the past...

on this past wkend's mammoth trip, my ski buddy was knocked silly, from behind. We just came off the rockier steeps on the upper mtn. and were taking a middlin pace back to lower gondie station. Guy took off - the impact was great, my friend was knocked out of both bindings - I went to him rather than chasing... Thankfully he's 210 lbs and built like an ox - a smaller/normal person would not have faired well ...

...pushing me to go XC and back country exclusively - my odds are way better, and what few people (and all other living things) are generally much more likeable.

EDIT - last 2 seasons I have been considering ceding my 'pass' and going full XC and 'back country' (no lift or lodge service). It's a hard thing to do, giving up what has been a lifelong passion and gotten me thru decades of 'employment'... life is change... and change is often called for...

 

[SBrown]

BIG off-topic note: Anyone else regularly amazed at how little clothes folks wore back in the day? (noting video Doug Briggs posted). Many old photos show people skiing in sweaters, wool pants, and little else -- no hats, etc. Were people just that more hard-ass then? Take a look at today's skiers and you can hardly determine a human form under the layers of fleece, Gore-Tex, and helmets.

I know when I was a kid (and brought up by a 50s-era skier in her hand-me-down wool clothes), we just didn't ski that often when it was really cold. In hindsight, I realize that this was my mother's preference, just because, but it also had to do with the fact that those clothes just weren't warm enough in storm skiing. We had down jackets, but the wool pants with cotton long johns underneath just didn't do it on cold windy snowy days. Maybe had Mom wanted to ski cold days, we would have had better clothes ....

 

[tball]

I don't want to speak for others, but I have no expectation that resorts are capable of completely solving this problem. I do expect that many resorts are capable of taking more proactive measures to make this a bit less of a problem. It's more about moving the needle and raising awareness than anything else. Resorts can't change fundamental human behavior, but they can help change people's incentives.

Totally agree. At least try to move the needle.

I don't believe the resorts want to raise awareness, thinking it's bad for business. It might scare folks in the short run but could change the trajectory of the industry for the better in the long run.

Yes, idiots are increasingly idiotic. Rather than silence from the resorts, they should be as outraged at these stories as we are.

How about the head of Breck Ski Patrol or somebody at Vail Resorts (and their counterparts at other resorts) put out a message like this one from the Colorado State Patrol:


Then follow it up with saturation patrols tracking down idiot skiers like I've seen CSP conduct looking for idiot drivers.

 

[Dakine]

I got cut down from behind while making very predictable turns at Ski Santa Fe.
It was a woman trying to keep up with her boyfriend and she had no concept of the skiers code even though it is posted on most chair towers.
When I caught up with the couple, her boyfriend accused me of making a "funky" turn.
I gave them the Full Detroit but it was a good thing I didn't have a concealed carry.
Wonder if "stand your ground" applies on ski areas...?
Another time I was cut off by a straightliner who couldn't ski.
I watched him crash, skied up throwing snow all over him and gave him another Full Detroit.
He was dumbfounded, he thought ski areas were anything goes amusement parks.
If enough folks get hurt, no liability release will protect ski area management because of gross negligence.

 

[Doby Man]

There has to be real, unbiased witnesses, video or some kind of reasonable proof that the alleged collision actually occurred for which a victim witness loved one of the injured may not qualify. I find that such a lack of unbiased witnesses and video that was recording all day except for the incident in question, somewhat weary. The assumptive reactions of many in this thread highlight a lot of reasoning why those parents may have keenly chosen to separate themselves from the scene. They could end up losing their house in a jury trial over an incident for which there is no video, no witnesses and no proof of collision other than the husband who is a victim witness. They could even lose their house if they won a trial. Victim witness accounts have been studied and proven to be very unreliable. Not to mention that this guy’s social media response is overwhelmingly prosecutorial for which he would stand to recover a large sum of remuneration. Don’t get me wrong, I feel bad for this guy regardless of the accuracy of his account. But, even if memory is accurate, some of the most seemingly honest people will facilitate a shift in honesty and truth under such victim duress such as a strong emotional urgency for someone to blame. The study of victimology also suggests how people tend to grant both themselves and others the moral high ground related to honesty and reliability to victims which is then used as an advantage in jury trials. Is it possible that the injured victim merely reacted to someone coming close which resulted in her skiing into the trees? We may never know. When you think about it experientially, skiing into someone who then is forced into the trees as described is, would be, a very unlikely occurrence. This could simply be a similar result to an over reaction to being brake checked by someone being tailgated on the highway. The injuries are only proof of a collision with the trees and not another person. Though I am not saying it didn’t happen. When it comes to recounting events for a victim witness and the tendencies of juries (such as responders to this thread) to skip by the factual details so they can satisfy their emotions and move on, people need to protect themselves. Once you are caught up, it may not matter if you are innocent as to whether you will be punished. Not to mention how the added useless video, hospital photos, the ravenous news media and emotionally inclined social media drives the emotional momentum of this story resulting in so many prematurely punitive conclusions. The way people will rally around a victim is based in the same psychology of “group think” that also results in many crimes. So many people, especially the poor, disadvantaged and minorities have spent their life in jail due to very weak witness accounts, emotional responses, rushes to judgement and overzealous prosecution that have been later proved false (if they were lucky). This dynamic lives and breathes in this thread. Nowadays, thanks to the incredibly shallow news media seeking to take advantage of emotional public reaction to boost ratings and this world’s pathetic outbreak of social media, you can’t trust the court, the politics or public judgement in order to balance justice as it all comes down to who can afford the best attorney. In that case, being poor equals being guilty. The best people can say about our “public system” is that it is “it’s all we have”. And, unfortunately, nowadays, that is all we are, a social media lynch mob for which actual proof is merely an afterthought.

This reminds me of when I broke a teammate's femur during a high school football practice for which we were only supposed to be hitting at 3/4 intensity. As I was running to tackle the ball carrier in a technically correct manner that I was coached, I was clipped from behind and thrown forward into the ball runner without my prior state of control which resulted in my helmet snapping the runner’s femur in half. Everybody heard the “crack” except me for whatever reason. The next day in school there was a lot of talk and I was given the nickname, bonesnapper. At first, I thought it was cool but all the talk, such as in this thread, culminated in a meeting with the school that almost resulted in me getting kicked off the football team, if it weren’t for that the guy who clipped me hadn’t admitted his part in the incident, a fact that didn’t fit into the commonly emotional and ignorant public narrative of crime and punishment. If my fate were up to most of the contributors to this thread, I'd of been kicked off the football team, on drugs and burglarizing their home as a result.

 

[CalG]

I find it amazing that we so readily apply the standards of an adult to a juvenile.

All this legal bantering is only distraction. None of us were there, we respond based on our own bias based on the testimony of a biased report.

Tried in the court of public opinion! I wouldn't wish it on anyone (except those who would support it)

And just What is the ski area to do with a 10 year old who collides with an adult? Accept the adults version of the incident, and banish the youth?

An impossible situation that returns unreasonable responses.