Skiing Hit-n-Run at Breck

[Dakine]

Safest place on the mountain on crowded days is in the gates.
I skied NASTAR and beer league for a lot of years because then it's my fault.

 

[Jwrags]

This incident is definitely a parenting issue. While the kid seemed to have been at fault it also sounds as if he knew he screwed up and was apologetic then the dad whisked him away from the scene. While skiing at Mt. Bachelor last week with my son and his friend it became apparent that not all have had their parents verbally beat the skier code into them. On back to back runs I watched as the friend shoot straight across a trail from a merging trail directly beneath a couple of skiers who were on the main trail and did not even look. Fortunately there was plenty of room and no collision but it was not proper. The next run he almost skied down on top of me as I was making a turn. He is a great kid, nice, polite, good manners, but I think he just does not know proper etiquette because he did not grow up skiing with parents who were skiers. I watched my son closely last week and was proud to see him look uphill before he started or crossed another trail and was careful about overtaking other skiers. As has been mentioned, this is a societal problem from skiing to driving where it is ever person for themselves.

 

[HardDaysNight]

I like these suggestions, and have not previously heard them made.
Imagine how behavior on the slopes might change if there were surveillance cameras on the chairlift towers,
and if people were make aware of their presence and the resort's intention to record accidents.
Ski resorts could let skiers know that videos will be made available to the injured parties, their lawyers, and the police, should they request them,
and that passes will be pulled by if the resort determines reckless skiing is occuring.

There’s no doubt things could be made safer if resort management cared to do so. Unfortunately it appears to be a very low priority, at least at PCMR and, I imagine, other Vail resorts. For example, patrol at PCMR have been told and I quote: “ Your job is to open the resort in the morning and to carry the bodies off the hill. It is not to annoy the guests with lectures.” There is, unfortunately, absolutely zero incentive for resort management to undertake initiatives such as suggested above.

 

[AmyPJ]

There’s no doubt things could be made safer if resort management cared to do so. Unfortunately it appears to be a very low priority, at least at PCMR and, I imagine, other Vail resorts. For example, patrol at PCMR have been told and I quote: “ Your job is to open the resort in the morning and to carry the bodies off the hill. It is not to annoy the guests with lectures.” There is, unfortunately, absolutely zero incentive for resort management to undertake initiatives such as suggested above.

I don't think it's much better at my hill. They've made a few changes, but they aren't really enforcing them. Terrain parks scattered about don't help. I loathe them.

 

[wyowindrunner]

Personally, I wear my helmet cam when skiing with our kids. I forgot it last weekend and felt naked. I turn it on at the top and off at the bottom. I'm sure the injured woman's husband wishes he left his camera running

Generally just head to the house when the the hills get crowded with the folks in frantic pursuit of fun. Avoid weekends unless we have a snow event. But the quote above may be the most legitimate excuse for a go pro I have ever heard.

 

[François Pugh]

Why not?

Because like any good idea, the people putting it into practice will ruin it. I have no doubt that should such a policy be implemented, they would start pulling over skiers who ski faster than they think they themselves can ski in control, and taking passes away from people who are skiing fast, but well within their limits and in no danger of not avoiding people or objects ahead of them.

 

[Near Nyquist]

Why not?

There are cameras all over Target and Walmart. Why not ski resorts?

And not just Vail Resorts. I'd love to see cameras at my home mountain, Copper. Put a camera on every lift tower coming out of the bases. Focusing on safety would be a great way to differentiate against the nearby overcrowded Vail Resorts.

Five lifts x 30 - 40 towers/lift would be about 200 cameras. That must be less than the number of cameras at a typical SuperStore.

It that's too expensive, put a camera on every other tower. Or, just put cameras on the beginner side of the mountain to protect the little kiddos that don't have a chance in a collision.

It will all end up on jerry of the day !!!!

 

[tball]

Because like any good idea, the people putting it into practice will ruin it. I have no doubt that should such a policy be implemented, they would start pulling over skiers who ski faster than they think they themselves can ski in control, and taking passes away from people who are skiing fast, but well within their limits and in no danger of not avoiding people or objects ahead of them.

There will always be plenty of runs without cameras. Go ski those, and I'll ski with my 40-50 pound kiddos on the runs with cameras and everyone will be happy.

 

[Coach13]

This kind of nonsense, and the crowds in general, are why all the folks I know buy a night pass and mostly ski Sunday thru Thursday night at Whitetail and Liberty. If we ski a weekend day we head outside the area or stay local and just ski for a few hours in the morning. I’ve seen more of these incidents at these 2 places than I can count. My wife will ski when we go out west but I couldn’t pay her to ski these 2 places, especially on a weekend. The last time she went to Whitetail we rode up the lift together but skied down different runs. As I skied up behind her in the lift line there was mid 20s boarder in her face about skiing too slowly at the bottom of the run (where it is marked a slow ski area). I shut ithat down pretty quickly but she has never went back.

 

[clong83]

Had an incident last week with a kid jumping and almost landing on my better half. The kid yelled at him to "get out of my way!" So, he chased the kid down, and told him that he in NO WAY had the right of way. Kid's dad skis up, says to him that he needs to "shut up and go F yourself, old man."

The attitude and environment is changing, and it's not just on the ski hill...

It's unfortunate.

I had a guy hit me hard at Ski Santa Fe while I was stopped in front of the millenium lift a few years ago. Knocked me over, even lost my skis (DINS are set at 9). He boarded off, and yelled "Sorry, bro!" as he went on down to the bottom of the mountain. There was no way for him to even have known if I was okay or not. Thankfully, I was.

And a couple weeks ago at Taos, I saw a near collision from the lift. Guy is dropping into the top of Reforma, with another guy about three moguls below him picking his way down. The uphill guy comes down fast, and very narrowly misses the downhill guy, who made a sudden turn around a mogul against the falline, as people obviously picking their way down a mogul field sometimes do. The uphill guy (now downhill guy) turned around and yelled, "Watch your uphill, *ssh*l*!" I mean he seriously dropped aggressively into the run with another guy right below him, narrowly missed him, and then yelled at him.

My friends and I made it a running gag the rest of the day to sneak up behind each other in a mogul field and suddenly yell, "Watch your uphill, *ssh*l*!". But yeah, I wish there was stricter enforcement of this crap. Not sure if cameras are really the right approach.

 

[Tricia]

So who here would turn yourself and your kid into the sheriff if this was you right now? Answer honestly. I would have some serious pause knowing a lawsuit and jail time would be coming. We don't have a culture where accidents are tolerated anymore and people can just get away with a life lesson and apologies. When the police and lawyers are always made to get involved with everything that happens it makes people do stuff like this.

At this point - I'd be a coward and not turn myself in. The costs are too high, precisely for the reasons you outline. I'd add our mob mentality now - the outrage mob culture is real, frightening and having negative real world impact on people - lost jobs, destroyed reputations, or worse.

Worthy discussion to focus on prevention. Do all you can to prevent this, but God forbid it ever happens to you or yours (you cause the accident, someone else to be hurt) stop and assist! Helps to decide before hand that is what you will do.

I bet this Dad saw what happened, the severity of the injuries, knew the potential consequences (jail, lawsuit, financial ruin), panicked and split.

Honest answer.

Honestly -
If it were me and my kid at the scene I wouldn't have taken off. It is my inherent nature to stop and help someone, whether or not I was involved or not.
But at this point, after running, and knowing how public this has become, there is no way I'd come forward. I'd be hoping and praying that my kid would keep his mouth shut...at this point.
Blunt honesty.
The litigious environment we live in *may* cause someone who is otherwise good and decent to do what is necessary to cover one's own butt.

That being said, I sill wouldn't be in this situation because I wouldn't have fled the scene in the first place. That's me.

 

[Coach13]

Honestly -
If it were me and my kid at the scene I wouldn't have taken off. It is my inherent nature to stop and help someone, whether or not I was involved or not.
But at this point, after running, and knowing how public this has become, there is no way I'd come forward. I'd be hoping and praying that my kid would keep his mouth shut...at this point.
Blunt honesty.
The litigious environment we live in *may* cause someone who is otherwise good and decent to do what is necessary to cover one's own butt.

That being said, I sill wouldn't be in this situation because I wouldn't have fled the scene in the first place. That's me.

Same with me. Involved or not I couldn’t ski away from an injured skier.

 

[Johnny V.]

buy a night pass

At our local hill, night skiing can be crazy. Schools are there Mon-Fri. and Saturdays and Sundays are "Family Nights"-three tickets for $75.00. There's mayhem on a couple of the beginner slopes. We have our beer league on Wednesday night and it can be nuts, although once again it's mainly confined to the greens. The lift line is a challenge also...................

 

[Doug Briggs]

So who here would turn yourself and your kid into the sheriff if this was you right now? Answer honestly. I would have some serious pause knowing a lawsuit and jail time would be coming. We don't have a culture where accidents are tolerated anymore and people can just get away with a life lesson and apologies. When the police and lawyers are always made to get involved with everything that happens it makes people do stuff like this.

That isn't a decision I'd have to make. They'd have my information from not having run from the scene and I wouldn't be facing hit and run charges.

 

[Lorenzzo]

Why not?

There are cameras all over Target and Walmart. Why not ski resorts?

And not just Vail Resorts. I'd love to see cameras at my home mountain, Copper. Put a camera on every lift tower coming out of the bases. Focusing on safety would be a great way to differentiate against the nearby overcrowded Vail Resorts.

Five lifts x 30 - 40 towers/lift would be about 200 cameras. That must be less than the number of cameras at a typical SuperStore.

It that's too expensive, put a camera on every other tower. Or, just put cameras on the beginner side of the mountain to protect the little kiddos that don't have a chance in a collision.

There are cameras in my current model Tacoma. I had to sign a waiver advising me video and recorded data could be used in legal proceedings.

 

[Core2]

After thinking about this a lot today, I have no fear that Vail will put cameras on every lift tower considering most ski areas can barely keep a couple webcams working.

 

[jzmtl]

On a related note, this is the reason I adopted the porcupine stance when there are random skiers around, inside hand hold the pole horizontal pointing straight uphill, tip at eye level. Bad form of skiing, but better form than being crashed into by meat missiles.

Also when stopped, plant both poles solidly uphill.

After thinking about this a lot today, I have no fear that Vail will put cameras on every lift tower considering most ski areas can barely keep a couple webcams working.

I'm sure it's intentional, they turn the camera off when the crowd is huge or condition is bad.

 

[LiquidFeet]

....most ski areas can barely keep a couple webcams working.

....I'm sure it's intentional, they turn the camera off when the crowd is huge or condition is bad.

I've always thought this. Intentional often, but probably not always.

 

[RJS]

Generally just head to the house when the the hills get crowded with the folks in frantic pursuit of fun. Avoid weekends unless we have a snow event

I wish that I could follow this advice, and I'm sure lots of others wish they could too, but it's a privilege to have the time to ski midweek or on non-holidays when the slopes aren't crowded. Unfortunately, I'm part of the large group of folks who have to work M-F and whose time off happens during holiday periods when everybody else is also on vacation. For better or worse, skiing has to fit into the rest of my life, as much as I sometimes wish it were the other way around.

I agree with everybody here that this is a major problem that the resorts haven't done a good enough job at solving. My mom got hit pretty bad from behind by a snowboarder at Sunday River a long time ago. The woman who hit her stopped and made sure that my mom was OK. Last season I got hit from behind by a skier at Deer Valley, even though I had looked uphill less than ten seconds beforehand and didn't see anybody. He ended up in worse shape than me. Vail has tried to regulate people's speed in beginner areas before and has caught a lot of flak in online forums for doing so. Is their approach wrong, or do people not appreciate doing told to slow down or stay in control?

On occasion, I love to go fast and let it rip, but I am a very cautious skier. If I want to go fast on a particular run, I'll stop at the beginning of a run and wait for an opening where nobody is coming from uphill and everyone downhill is a good distance ahead. Sometimes I have to wait a minute or two, and if there isn't a good opening and the trail is too crowded then I won't go fast. The top priority always has to be that everybody goes home safely.

 

[Old boot]

Accidents happen..thats why they are called accidents. What happens after shows the character of the people involved. But this is one of the worst case of parenting I have heard.

Sorry Phil I usually agree with you but as my lawyer would say" there are no accidents only poor decisions that lead to an unwanted outcome"