• For more information on how to avoid pop-up ads and still support SkiTalk click HERE.
Status
Not open for further replies.

Decreed_It

I'd rather be skiing
Skier
Joined
Jan 9, 2019
Posts
905
Location
Northern Beaches, Sydney, Australia
So who here would turn yourself and your kid into the sheriff if this was you right now? Answer honestly. I would have some serious pause knowing a lawsuit and jail time would be coming. We don't have a culture where accidents are tolerated anymore and people can just get away with a life lesson and apologies. When the police and lawyers are always made to get involved with everything that happens it makes people do stuff like this.

At this point - I'd be a coward and not turn myself in. The costs are too high, precisely for the reasons you outline. I'd add our mob mentality now - the outrage mob culture is real, frightening and having negative real world impact on people - lost jobs, destroyed reputations, or worse.

Worthy discussion to focus on prevention. Do all you can to prevent this, but God forbid it ever happens to you or yours (you cause the accident, someone else to be hurt) stop and assist! Helps to decide before hand that is what you will do.

I bet this Dad saw what happened, the severity of the injuries, knew the potential consequences (jail, lawsuit, financial ruin), panicked and split.

Honest answer.
 

François Pugh

Skiing the powder
Skier
Joined
Nov 17, 2015
Posts
7,615
Location
Great White North (Eastern side currently)
If I caused an accident I should pay the damages. I have complete confidence that my lawyer would be able to persuade a judge as to what is fair. Some folk have insurance for just this reason. Some people don't. Some people don't care. It's a parenting failure. It goes back a generation or two. How is someone supposed to bring up a child when they weren't properly brought up?
 

tball

Unzipped
Skier
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
4,362
Location
Denver, CO
Very scary. Glad she wasn't more seriously injured or killed.

While I'm a dedicated skier, stories like this give me pause about raising our kids as skiers.

The resorts can and should do more or they risk folks avoiding the sport for safer activities, just as more and more road bikers are training indoors as they hear of other cyclists being hit by cars.

IMO, on a run under the lift like that at Breck, there should be cameras recording from each tower. Mark on the map which runs have video surveillance to give families a place to feel safer and discourage idiots from those runs.

Use the video to pull the passes of dangerous skiers. With RFID and machine learning, identifying dangerous skiers could be semi-automated. If there is an injury from a collision, the video can be used as evidence in both civil and criminal proceedings.

Personally, I wear my helmet cam when skiing with our kids. I forgot it last weekend and felt naked. I turn it on at the top and off at the bottom. I'm sure the injured woman's husband wishes he left his camera running.
 

Decreed_It

I'd rather be skiing
Skier
Joined
Jan 9, 2019
Posts
905
Location
Northern Beaches, Sydney, Australia
If I caused an accident I should pay the damages. I have complete confidence that my lawyer would be able to persuade a judge as to what is fair. Some folk have insurance for just this reason. Some people don't. Some people don't care. It's a parenting failure. It goes back a generation or two. How is someone supposed to bring up a child when they weren't properly brought up?

We keep an umbrella policy for this purpose too. I'd guess (don't know) that the average person does not though, and panic is a legit (albeit poor and irresponsible) reaction.
 

Ken_R

Living the Dream
Skier
Joined
Feb 10, 2016
Posts
5,775
Location
Denver, CO
Very scary. Glad she wasn't more seriously injured or killed.

While I'm a dedicated skier, stories like this give me pause about raising our kids as skiers.

The resorts can and should do more or they risk folks avoiding the sport for safer activities, just as more and more road bikers are training indoors as they hear of other cyclists being hit by cars.

IMO, on a run under the lift like that at Breck, there should be cameras recording from each tower. Mark on the map which runs have video surveillance to give families a place to feel safer and discourage idiots from those runs.

Use the video to pull the passes of dangerous skiers. With RFID and machine learning, identifying dangerous skiers could be semi-automated. If there is an injury from a collision, the video can be used as evidence in both civil and criminal proceedings.

Personally, I wear my helmet cam when skiing with our kids. I forgot it last weekend and felt naked. I turn it on at the top and off at the bottom. I'm sure the injured woman's husband wishes he left his camera running.

Great ideas. Very easy for the resorts to justify the cost which is negligible considering the money they have to put in the entire operation.
 

Coach13

Making fresh tracks
Skier
Joined
Nov 15, 2015
Posts
2,091
Location
No. VA
I think that injuries from out of control skiers and boarders happens more than we realize especially at crowded resorts and I bet most of us have had a similar experience or at least a close call. What makes this even more intolerable is the fact that the offender ran off likely at the parent’s urging. While I agree that the moral fiber of society has declined over the years, the knee jerk reaction to file suit to collective damages has increased 10 fold in the same timeframe. 15 years ago both the kid and dad would have done everything they could do possible to help and they would have parted as friends. Mind you, there is obviously no excuse for what happened here.
 

Lauren

AKA elemmac
SkiTalk Tester
Contributor
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Jun 7, 2016
Posts
2,589
Location
The Granite State
So who here would turn yourself and your kid into the sheriff if this was you right now? Answer honestly. I would have some serious pause knowing a lawsuit and jail time would be coming. We don't have a culture where accidents are tolerated anymore and people can just get away with a life lesson and apologies. When the police and lawyers are always made to get involved with everything that happens it makes people do stuff like this.

This crossed my mind after reading this article from Fox Denver 31. Specifically the guy's tweets..."Better fess up before I find you" and "I will chase you and look for you the rest of my life". I understand he's upset, and rightfully so...but this just seems so...intense.
 

SBrown

So much better than a pro
Skier
Contributor
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Nov 8, 2015
Posts
7,846
Location
Colorado
If I may defend people who were born after the idealized 1950s ... clothing styles and greetings change. It doesn't mean that the young are immoral.

Some of those 1950s hat tippers were even kind enough to provide separate drinking fountains for all types of different people, too!
 

Jacob

Out on the slopes
Skier
Joined
Oct 13, 2017
Posts
777
Location
Maui
From what I've seen of the world, this kind of thing is cultural. There are some cultures whose skiers have a tendency to overterrain themselves or ski/board faster than they can control quite often, and America is sadly one of those cultures.

The situation in some US resorts is starting to remind me of the streets of Moscow and St Petersburg back when I was there (early 2000's). Eventually, insurance companies stopped insuring any car that didn't have a dashboard cam because of all the crap that went on there. I wouldn't be surprised if people in the US start thinking about requiring helmet or body cams because of the crap that goes on in the resorts there.
 

bamaman

Getting off the lift
Skier
Joined
Apr 24, 2017
Posts
108
Location
North Alabama
People are either cautious or they are not (risk takers) when in a group environment. It's no different with driving. People drive too close all the time because 99.9% of the time, nothing bad ever happens. So they don't see anything wrong driving 10 feet off someone else's rear bumper going 70+ down the highway. But these are the one's who rear-end someone every few years and hopefully it's not a major accident. They don't account for the unexpected. Cautious people realize it only takes something out of the ordinary to cause a dangerous accident. And they usually avoid them. Relates directly to skiing.
 

Coach13

Making fresh tracks
Skier
Joined
Nov 15, 2015
Posts
2,091
Location
No. VA
People are either cautious or they are not (risk takers) when in a group environment. It's no different with driving. People drive too close all the time because 99.9% of the time, nothing bad ever happens. So they don't see anything wrong driving 10 feet off someone else's rear bumper going 70+ down the highway. But these are the one's who rear-end someone every few years and hopefully it's not a major accident. They don't account for the unexpected. Cautious people realize it only takes something out of the ordinary to cause a dangerous accident. And they usually avoid them. Relates directly to skiing.

Put another way, you can’t fix stupid.
 

Decreed_It

I'd rather be skiing
Skier
Joined
Jan 9, 2019
Posts
905
Location
Northern Beaches, Sydney, Australia
Forgot to mention - we stopped skiing in NC on the Winter Holiday weekends (MLK, Presidents) a couple years back due to severe overcrowding and beginner danger. Just not worth the risk to us. In NC - if you want to buy a lift ticket, they're gonna sell it to you, period.
 

Wasatchman

over the hill
Skier
Joined
Nov 9, 2017
Posts
2,324
Location
Wasatch and NZ
The lack of personal responsibility is shocking. I can't believe a father would flee the scene with his child in a situation like that.

The Park Record (Park City) just posted an article about hit and run vehicle accidents (see below). What the hell is happening to personal responsibility these days. Fortunately, with all the cell phones and technology, you are now more than ever more likely to get caught via camer footage than ever before.

https://www.parkrecord.com/news/park-city-hit-and-runs-unfortunately-a-sign-of-the-season/
 

Wasatchman

over the hill
Skier
Joined
Nov 9, 2017
Posts
2,324
Location
Wasatch and NZ
This crossed my mind after reading this article from Fox Denver 31. Specifically the guy's tweets..."Better fess up before I find you" and "I will chase you and look for you the rest of my life". I understand he's upset, and rightfully so...but this just seems so...intense.

You can understand the man's outrage given what happened to his daughter. The father who fled had no regard for the safety of his daughter, so you can understand his anger. Accidents happen, but to flee the scene like that with no regard for someone's well being is reprehensible.

You bring up a good point that if you fled the scene and then have remorse after the fact, it does make it more difficult to turn yourself in knowing the stiff penalties facing you including possible job loss, etc. And knowing that the girl ended up okay, he might be feeling remorse but thinking all's well that ends well, it just isn't worth turning myself in at this point.

But I like the advertised anger at fleeing the scene. If it is advertised enough, it may help prevent the next guy from fleeing the scene of an accident.
 

AmyPJ

Skiing the powder
SkiTalk Tester
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
7,835
Location
Ogden, UT
I witnessed a teenage boy today JUMP a person who had fallen, and had been sitting on the run for a good minute or two before the kid came upon her, on a runout, where there is no WAY he didn't see the lady from above. He JUMPED her on his snowboard--picked up speed intentionally so he'd make it, and he let out a big whoop and holler as he flew over her. I saw patrol a minute later, then spotted the boy and his buddies and told patrol what happened. He decided he'd follow the kids for a bit. I have no idea what happened.

I was with two gals who are extremely accomplished skiers-former racers in their 50s and 60s, and they both called it quits because it was just too dangerous.

I get that accidents happen and defensive/smart skiing can help mitigate that to an extent, but the out-of-control kids (or adults) who have no fear and no sense, and no respect, they scare me enough to make me want to not ski anymore some days.
 
Last edited:

Jerez

Skiing the powder
Skier
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Nov 25, 2015
Posts
2,992
Location
New Mexico
I think we are making a lot of assumptions about folks we don't know. @Philpug is right. It is the behavior afterward that is deplorable and clear. None of us knows why the kid was going so fast.

Was he over-terrain-ed on purpose or by mistake? Was he having a fight with his parents and took off on them? The idea that parents can control the behavior of their kids 100% of the time is just not realistic. Even good parents lose control now and then. I know we had talks with our granddaughter about skiing in control but she got carried away a few times in spite of that. Also, we went to a marked green run with her and were caught off guard when a large section of it was much steeper than we expected. So I guess i'm saying $hit happens. The important thing is what you do after. And, in spite of @Core2 's correct observations, you just have to suck it up and deal with the consequences. That woman who was run down had to, right?!
 

LiquidFeet

instructor
Instructor
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
6,697
Location
New England
.... The resorts can and should do more or they risk folks avoiding the sport for safer activities....

IMO, on a run under the lift like that at Breck, there should be cameras recording from each tower. Mark on the map which runs have video surveillance to give families a place to feel safer and discourage idiots from those runs.

Use the video to pull the passes of dangerous skiers.....

I like these suggestions, and have not previously heard them made.
Imagine how behavior on the slopes might change if there were surveillance cameras on the chairlift towers,
and if people were make aware of their presence and the resort's intention to record accidents.
Ski resorts could let skiers know that videos will be made available to the injured parties, their lawyers, and the police, should they request them,
and that passes will be pulled by if the resort determines reckless skiing is occuring.
 
Last edited:

Core2

Making fresh tracks
Skier
Joined
Nov 29, 2015
Posts
1,848
Location
AZ
I like these suggestions, and have not previously heard them made.
Imagine how behavior on the slopes might change if there were surveillance cameras on the chairlift towers,
and if people were make aware of their presence and the resort's intention to record accidents.
Ski resorts could let skiers know that videos will be made available to the injured parties, their lawyers, and the police, should they request them,
and that passes will be pulled by if the resort determines reckless skiing is occuring.

Please don't tell anyone at Vail Resorts about this camera on lift tower idea. :eek::eek::eek:
 

tball

Unzipped
Skier
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
4,362
Location
Denver, CO
Please don't tell anyone at Vail Resorts about this camera on lift tower idea. :eek::eek::eek:
Why not?

There are cameras all over Target and Walmart. Why not ski resorts?

And not just Vail Resorts. I'd love to see cameras at my home mountain, Copper. Put a camera on every lift tower coming out of the bases. Focusing on safety would be a great way to differentiate against the nearby overcrowded Vail Resorts.

Five lifts x 30 - 40 towers/lift would be about 200 cameras. That must be less than the number of cameras at a typical SuperStore.

It that's too expensive, put a camera on every other tower. Or, just put cameras on the beginner side of the mountain to protect the little kiddos that don't have a chance in a collision.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Sponsor

Staff online

Top