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HardDaysNight

Making fresh tracks
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Park City, UT
Plan to download at end of the day. In my experience, any runs at a Vail resort marked 'family' or 'slow zone' is a death trap.

This is true! In my view anyone who mows down a skier in such an area, which only happens through carelessness, gross stupidity or self-absorption, should not merely have his pass pulled. He should be publicly hanged.
 

Bruuuce

My advice is worth what you paid for it.
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Steamboat Springs
I've noticed that more days than not at our mountain this year I've seen ski patrol randomly stationed behind or near slow signs to act as a speed reminder. I think that is a great way to address the issue without being overbearing. It's like passing a cop even when you aren't speeding. It still makes most think twice about it. No helping those that still don't care.
 

Coach13

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I've noticed that more days than not at our mountain this year I've seen ski patrol randomly stationed behind or near slow signs to act as a speed reminder. I think that is a great way to address the issue without being overbearing. It's like passing a cop even when you aren't speeding. It still makes most think twice about it. No helping those that still don't care.

I’m a fan of this and for most people their mere presence would be a deterrent. There would still be a few clueless idiots screaming thru that would require some extra attention, but overall it would help imo.
 

skibob

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Santa Rosa Fire Belt
I’m a fan of this and for most people their mere presence would be a deterrent. There would still be a few clueless idiots screaming thru that would require some extra attention, but overall it would help imo.
I can't imagine patrollers like this, when they have genuinely more important work to do. So I feel for them. But it would be helpful.
 

tball

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^^^ That could be fully automated. Ski too fast past a slow sign and you get a 20-minute timeout at the bottom before you can take the next lift.
 

cosmoliu

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Central CA Coast
In December Jackson Hole had Yellow Jackets stationed behind the slow signs above the Casper Restaurant. And, usually, behind the slow signs in Amphitheater, which I thought was effective. And, to me, it was an indication that JH cares about safety.

And that snow angel "She was 5..." poster was prominently featured at all the lift get-ons. Sobering read, but I seriously doubt that it connected with the teen-aged, testosterone juiced meat missiles.
 

skibob

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^^^ That could be fully automated. Ski too fast past a slow sign and you get a 20-minute timeout at the bottom before you can take the next lift.
waiting . . . waiting . . . waiting . . . And, Elon Musk just announced his new company "The Boring Space SkiPal Company". Automated timeouts for those who "ski like the Tesla they drive". Powered by Solar City of course . . .
 

CalG

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AND what appears to be a lack of followup and acceptance by Breck, that 'incidents' should promote either better 'enforcement on hill' or other avenues to create safer environments for their customers.
Did Breck do full interviews of the victim and 'witnesses' ? Did Breck check the 'environmental' conditions of the mishap area? What has Breck done?
- - - - - - - - - - -




accumulated above comments +,
all which miss the main point
collision mishaps which happen in the rear 180 degrees of the injured party are COMPLETELY the responsibility of the perp, not the victim.
in this case, the weight of 'purpose' and effort should be totally in aid of the victim...
pragmatic rationalization gives that warm glow of 'correctness' - until it happens to you, and you become the victim

my assumption : 50% of the 'outrage' by us, here is for the immediate incident and support of the victim.
The remainder of vitriol is spread between the obvious ongoing degradation of the skiing experience for all of us by inconsiderate sheeple AND commiseration by those of us who have been 'victims' as well.
and all is 100% justifiable !

And you KNOW all these details , HOW?

Oh, You saw it posted on the internet......

Ok, There is no need of reason to the argument, just post it, and people will believe every detail.

All I am saying is that the incident involved a youngster, that may have been or may not have been "out of control". Certainly there was an incident.
The injuries at the moment directly attributed to the "impact" may not have been apparent to that child (or anyone). The excursion into the trees complicates the entire matter. The Adult with the child (we have no idea of any relationship between them) should have shown responsibility in the follow up.


Just for perspective:
If the child is now hospitalized with massive internal damages, likely not to survive, does the outrage shift to some sympathy?

For me: Yes, for the outcome, No, for the communication.

ps

I have a deep interest in this issue. I deal with the results every day. Oftentimes as unpleasant as this case.
If there were 'something' that could be implemented that would actually work, I know about 150 people in responsible positions at my ski hill that would be truly receptive. Lord knows we have tried many efforts over the years.
Growing the sport is directly opposed to exclusion. So management will never wish to be harsh on "near misses".
 
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QueueCT

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Many here have made great suggestions for skiing off-piste and weekdays. I've personally done that for years and it makes a huge difference in safety. The chance of me getting hit weekdays and off-piste is fairly negligible.

Unfortunately, that advice doesn't work for families with kids. You have to learn to ski somewhere and it's not off-piste.

Kids are also stuck with school schedules which means skiing weekends and holidays. So, we have little choice but to put the most vulnerable at greatest risk on the slopes. If I'm missing a hack around this reality I'd love to hear any suggestions!

What do I do with our kiddos? We are skiing Copper this weekend (the MLK holiday). They are ready to graduate from greens to blues. I've kept them mostly on the easiest greens, both because that seems to be the advice of the respected instructors here and because they are the safest runs. We are blessed that the beginner area at Copper (Kokomo and Lumberjack lifts) must be one of the most isolated and safest beginner areas anywhere. The naturally divided terrain does make a huge difference.

So, what next? Given we are stuck skiing weekends and holidays, I'm tempted to skip blues and take them straight to bumps so they are in a safer environment. Any suggestions or advice?

I'd start with some greens that have some steeper sections first. Union Creek lift, primarily. I'm a fan of the Timberline lift for beginner blues ... provided the kids can ski the more difficult greens at Copper.
 

Coach13

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I can't imagine patrollers like this, when they have genuinely more important work to do. So I feel for them. But it would be helpful.

It wouldnt have to be patrollers. It could be mountain hosts or s few others hired for this specific task. A pass and a few $/hour would attract a few part time folks.
 

Lorenzzo

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Can anyone remember how many posts the Red jacket Grey jacket collision got?
 

markojp

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I hear what you are saying and I respect it but we are talking a 10-ish year old. Again, in this case comes back to the parents and to your point...was a really poor decision to leave the scene.

FWIW, this is a potential felony in WA. Legally no different than hit and run driving.
 

Doby Man

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Where I ski, the skier who is going the fastest always has the right of way. Accordingly, the skier who is moving the slowest has the least right of way. This also makes it much easier to indicate and, therefore, place blame onto those who are at fault as well as automatically assigning guilt to those easiest to chase down. Also, studies suggest that slow skiers are easier to beat up than fast skiers with a high level of reliability. Anyways, not my rule. Survival of the fittest or just the way things seem to be. Whether those are the official ordinances written down somewhere in some big fat book or just the way things simply tend to work out, I’m not a historian. Because I ski the fastest, that ensures I will be in the clear wherever I go and thus avoiding being snared in such legal entanglements and the approach I would recommend to all others … who are fast.
 

markojp

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Not sure how realistic or practical your statement is. Are you suggesting that an exchange of information should happen every time two people make contact at a ski resort?

Do you do that, does anyone?

As I mentioned in a reply to Phil's post, in WA, if there's a collision, you are legally obligated to stop. If you don't and you've left the injured party and it's determined you're at faulty, it's considered a felony. I've stopped skiers starting to move away from a collision they've caused and let them know that they're potentially committing a felony. Most are shocked and had no idea they needed to stop. All I can say is their momma's just didn't rais'em right... then they run for office and win.
 

Coach13

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Where I ski, the skier who is going the fastest always has the right of way. Accordingly, the skier who is moving the slowest has the least right of way. This also makes it much easier to indicate and, therefore, place blame onto those who are at fault as well as the ones being easiest to chase down. Also, studies suggest that slow skiers are easier to beat up than fast skiers with a high level of reliability. Anyways, not my rule. Survival of the fittest or just the way things seem to be. Whether those are the official ordinances written down somewhere in some big fat book or just the way things simply tend to work out, I’m not a historian. Because I ski the fastest, that ensures I will be in the clear wherever I go and thus avoiding being snared in such legal entanglements and the approach I would recommend to all others … who are fast.

How does the slower skier in front of the faster skier know the faster skier is behind him, in order to yield that right of way?
 

markojp

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It wouldnt have to be patrollers. It could be mountain hosts or s few others hired for this specific task. A pass and a few $/hour would attract a few part time folks.

Many western resorts have safety monitors/hosts that do exactly this.
 

CalG

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FWIW, this is a potential felony in WA. Legally no different than hit and run driving.

Not a good comparison. A 10 year old can not get a motor vehicle operators license. A 10 year old is more than welcome to ski at Any ski area.
 

CalG

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^^^ That could be fully automated. Ski too fast past a slow sign and you get a 20-minute timeout at the bottom before you can take the next lift.

Too Fast?
What does SLOW mean?

You must have a HUD system in your goggles to display your speed.
Such systems are cheap compared to the over all cost of snow skiing.... or so I will be told.

Could you suggest a practical standard?
 

tball

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Too Fast?
What does SLOW mean?

You must have a HUD system in your goggles to display your speed.
Such systems are cheap compared to the over all cost of snow skiing.... or so I will be told.

Could you suggest a practical standard?

Sure, these make sense to me.

Breck has what seems to be the minimal boilerplate:

SLOW ZONES. Certain areas (indicated on the map in yellow) are designated as SLOW ZONES. Please observe the posted slow areas by maintaining a speed no faster than the general flow of traffic. Space and speed are especially important in these areas. Fast and aggressive skiing will not be tolerated.
https://www.breckenridge.com/the-mountain/about-the-mountain/mountain-info.aspx
Copper adds some nice additional language:

FAMILY SKI & SLOW ZONES
Families have a special spot Copper. You will see on the Copper Mountain Trail map that we have specifically identified ski runs that are Slow & Family Zones. These tend to be more gentle slopes for slow family skiing. Additionally, we have identified Slow Zones in some higher traffic areas, and where approaching a busy intersection of trails or nearing lift-loading areas where slower speeds make a safer experience. Please observe the posted slow areas by maintaining a speed no faster than the general flow of traffic. Space and speed are especially important in these areas. Fast and aggressive skiing will not be tolerated and may result in the loss of lift access privileges.
https://www.coppercolorado.com/the-mountain/mountain-safety/safety-policies
Note that Breck has no mention of the loss of lift privileges like Copper. Both nicely define slow speed, IMO.
 

Bolder

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Simple rule is downhilll skier has the right of way. After all, you can see them but they can't see you. If you follow that rule everyone will be OK. Just like in surfing -- surfer farthest back on the wave has priority.

You can't teach kids anything. Trust me. They are programmed to be self - absorbed. My son is a very capable skier but he pays absolutely zero attention to others. And he likes to go fast. Luckily we live in Europe where there's no ski patrol or lawsuits to worry about. :crash:
 
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