Skier Only Mountains

[jo3st3]

What do you think about mountains that only allow skiers? Do these mountains do more business from making this decision, attracting more skiers, or lose business by eliminating half of the winter riders? How about conditions? Are the conditions that different?

Mad River Glen Ski Resort.
Deer Valley Ski Resort.
Alta Ski Resort.
...

 

[Karen_skier2.0]

I skied Mad River Glen & Alta before the snowboarding days really started. Since I primarily skied there to train moguls, I couldn't imagine snowboarders, at that time, attempting to ski there.

I've skied DV a few times and cannot say I really could tell the difference. What really sets DV apart is that they limit the number of tickets purchased per day. I never felt like I was skiing anything crowded there.

 

[Started at 53]

As a green run guy, I am not a fan of the snowboarders. Last week in Vail I was just behind and to the left of a snowboarder on a run that required a lot of speed to get up a mid-run incline. We were both going the exact same speed and the boarder had his back to me and not knowing I was there kept inadvertently pinching me in and I had to make a turn to cross his line behind him and lost needed speed to make it across the flat. A skier certainly would have seen me and we could have both kept our lines and speed.

Of course I don’t have a ton of experience, but it does seem that boarders push snow more that skiers.

Bottom line, I’m glad my home mountain will not allow boarders.

 

[YolkyPalky]

It's a business decision by Deer Valley and Alta to be ski only, and honestly out of the ~500ish ski mountains in the United States it amuses me how some boarders get their feathers all ruffled because 3 choose to be ski only.

Deer Valley is an upscale resort, situated right next to Park City (where their are plenty of boarders), and the clientele that DV attracts definitely appreciate the skiers only aspect. Alta is right next to Snowbird, which allows boarders, and Alta is also making a business decision that skiers appreciate ski only.

For Mad River Glen, I've never been there, but my understanding is it's very old with somewhat antiquated lift equipment and basically they just cant afford to upgrade the lifts to accommodate boarders, so they are ski only by default due to budget constraints more than anything else, again that's just what I read some time ago.

I actually wish there were more places that were ski only, but I am glad there are two legitimately awesome mountains in Deer Valley and Alta that are ski only.

 

[KingGrump]

For Mad River Glen, I've never been there, but my understanding is it's very old with somewhat antiquated lift equipment and basically they just cant afford to upgrade the lifts to accommodate boarders, so they are ski only by default due to budget constraints more than anything else, again that's just what I read some time ago.

According to their trail map, MRG has 4 chair lifts. Never seen a competent boarder that had issues with riding a chair lift. Regardless how antiquated the chair lift. Now boarders & T bars - plenty of blooper reel highlights.

 

[WC68]

I've skied DV a few times and cannot say I really could tell the difference. What really sets DV apart is that they limit the number of tickets purchased per day. I never felt like I was skiing anything crowded there.

The lack of boarders at DV is nice, but not a big deal. What I disagree with is this thought that DV isn’t crowded because they limit lift tickets. The last 3 times I’ve been, it was pretty busy, and any mitigation of crowds wasn’t noticeable to me. I’ve waited in shorter lift lines at steamboat, copper and Telluride. I just didn’t find it noticeably less crowded. Yeah, maybe less than some other places, but I still had some waits in line. Nothing painful, but certainly didn’t ski right onto the chair very often
I also think the grooming if over rated. Honestly I don’t see how any resort wins grooming wars. I mean it’s grooming right? No magic sauce they put down. Yeah, DV had groomed runs, but they were pretty damn firm in my experience(at the time I was there). Certainly didn’t have a feeling that, “dang, they groomed this better than anywhere else I’ve been “

 

[YolkyPalky]

According to their trail map, MRG has 4 chair lifts. Never seen a competent boarder that had issues with riding a chair lift. Regardless how antiquated the chair lift. Now boarders & T bars - plenty of blooper reel highlights.

https://www.adventuresportsnetwork....history-lesson-mad-river-glens-snowboard-ban/

I think this explains it better, though its from 2009.

 

[YolkyPalky]

The lack of boarders at DV is nice, but not a big deal. What I disagree with is this thought that DV isn’t crowded because they limit lift tickets. The last 3 times I’ve been, it was pretty busy, and any mitigation of crowds wasn’t noticeable to me. I’ve waited in shorter lift lines at steamboat, copper and Telluride. I just didn’t find it noticeably less crowded. Yeah, maybe less than some other places, but I still had some waits in line. Nothing painful, but certainly didn’t ski right onto the chair very often
I also think the grooming if over rated. Honestly I don’t see how any resort wins grooming wars. I mean it’s grooming right? No magic sauce they put down. Yeah, DV had groomed runs, but they were pretty damn firm in my experience(at the time I was there). Certainly didn’t have a feeling that, “dang, they groomed this better than anywhere else I’ve been “

I've never waited very long at Deer Valley lifts, I mean maybe down at Snow Park (the bottom base) where everyone is trying to get up the mountain and spread out, it might be a 10 minute wait. Now if you're talking about President's Day week when they're selling out every day sure there might be some lines. But generally the lifts that service the Black Runs (Sultan, Wasatch, Empire, Lady Morgan), I guess I've been lucky and never run into lines I would remotely complain about, in fact more often than not, I am just skiing right onto those lifts. Guess I was hitting the right days at the right times.

 

[James]

For Mad River Glen, I've never been there, but my understanding is it's very old with somewhat antiquated lift equipment and basically they just cant afford to upgrade the lifts to accommodate boarders, so they are ski only by default due to budget constraints more than anything else, again that's just what I read some time ago.

https://www.adventuresportsnetwork....history-lesson-mad-river-glens-snowboard-ban/

I think this explains it better, though its from 2009.

Mad River since then voted (as a coop) to keep the single chair when ugrading it. This actually cost them more but they decided it was integral to the character of the mt.
It's a long chair ride also which has the benefit of giving rest between mogul runs.

 

[Johnny V.]

I'm not a bigot..........I've even ROOMED with snowboarders on ski trip! My niece is living with one though, and that's been kind of tough on our family..............

 

[fatbob]

As a green run guy, I am not a fan of the snowboarders. Last week in Vail I was just behind and to the left of a snowboarder on a run that required a lot of speed to get up a mid-run incline. We were both going the exact same speed and the boarder had his back to me and not knowing I was there kept inadvertently pinching me in and I had to make a turn to cross his line behind him and lost needed speed to make it across the flat. A skier certainly would have seen me and we could have both kept our lines and speed.

Of course I don’t have a ton of experience, but it does seem that boarders push snow more that skiers.

Bottom line, I’m glad my home mountain will not allow boarders.

I realise you are a relatively new skier but I think these arguments are kinda superficial. In almost the whole world skiers and boarders get along fine together on the slopes and I do view the holdouts in the US as kinda reactionary. Now its their business so I don't really care. Alta has some cool terrain but boarders can ride more or less the same stuff right next door so it doesn't seem like anyone is missing much.

The real issue is that people who've only ever been skiers often see boarders as a homogeneous class. Perhaps because thay lack the eye to distinguish beyween skill levels and definitely because snowboarders have no obvious "tell" re inexperience like the snowplough or stem.

It would do everyone good as part of their ski education to spend at least a day in snowboard lessons to appreciate some of the challenges and the vulnerabilities. If you haven't developed spatial awareness skills skiing you'll pretty soon appreciate that the shoulder check is a core skill for everyone.

And even if you like a conservative reactionary position on snowboarders remember that snowboarding saved modern skiing - sidecut, mid fat, fat skis, boutique explision, Bode, Palmer, Shane, X games,more families kept in the game etc etc

Think of Golf without carbon fibre, big heads and Tiger.

Nothing personal obviously - just picked your post as a starting point as it contained some well trodden retrogrouches.

 

[fatbob]

Further point. To avoid getting pinched by a boarder always pass them on their toeside. If one is passing you heelside then if they don't shouldercheck assume they haven't seen you and might turn into your "lane".

 

[Started at 53]

Think of Golf without carbon fibre, big heads and Tiger.

Nothing personal obviously - just picked your post as a starting point as it contained some well trodden retrogrouches.

Golf would be fine without Carbon Fiber and Big Heads. And Tiger is a one of the all time great players, but no one is bigger than the game.

Further point. To avoid getting pinched by a boarder always pass them on their toeside. If one is passing you heelside then if they don't shouldercheck assume they haven't seen you and might turn into your "lane".

As for your point here, the boarder came from well to the right on the wide run to pinch me in, it was hardly my doing.

I have nothing against snowboarders, but I am happy with just skiers. Kinda like I have no interest in football, that of either side of the Atlantic! Doesn’t make either game of football a bad game, but it’s not for me.

 

[AmyPJ]

As a green run guy, I am not a fan of the snowboarders. Last week in Vail I was just behind and to the left of a snowboarder on a run that required a lot of speed to get up a mid-run incline. We were both going the exact same speed and the boarder had his back to me and not knowing I was there kept inadvertently pinching me in and I had to make a turn to cross his line behind him and lost needed speed to make it across the flat. A skier certainly would have seen me and we could have both kept our lines and speed.

Of course I don’t have a ton of experience, but it does seem that boarders push snow more that skiers.

Bottom line, I’m glad my home mountain will not allow boarders.

Click your poles together or shout out, "on your left!" (or right) to let them know you are there.

 

[Jacob]

For me, skier-only mountains are funny, because I don't think they solve the "problems" that people think they solve.

For example, my very first day at DV, I was riding the lift with a small group that was having a chin wag about how not having boarders on the mountain made them feel safer. Within maybe 15 seconds of them all agreeing on that point, I saw a lady on the slope under the lift nearly plow over a kid in front of her, waving her hands and shouting "watch out, kid!"

Of course, none of the people on the lift noticed the near collision.

 

[Josh Matta]

What do you think about mountains that only allow skiers? Do these mountains do more business from making this decision, attracting more skiers, or lose business by eliminating half of the winter riders? How about conditions? Are the conditions that different?

Mad River Glen Ski Resort.
Deer Valley Ski Resort.
Alta Ski Resort.
...

They only eliminating about 30 percent of business if even that. Snowboarding is a dieing sport.

The worst thing about all of those mountain is Z turned bumps, boarders make round bumps, people who think they are good skiers make Z turned bumps.

People who ski in power wedges shouldnt complain about snowboards scraping snow off the hill.

 

[Jim McDonald]

I think Alta should open up to boarders. there'd be a mad rush of them for about two weeks until they realized that much of the best stuff requires
Another
Long
Traverse
Again
and headed back to Snowbird, except for a small contingent of very accomplished riders who would be no more annoying than some skiers I've seen there.
Tell me, seriously, you wouldn't enjoy riding a lift with Shaun White and asking him how in hell he comes up with those tricks!

 

[Josh Matta]

It's a business decision by Deer Valley and Alta to be ski only, and honestly out of the ~500ish ski mountains in the United States it amuses me how some boarders get their feathers all ruffled because 3 choose to be ski only.

Deer Valley is an upscale resort, situated right next to Park City (where their are plenty of boarders), and the clientele that DV attracts definitely appreciate the skiers only aspect. Alta is right next to Snowbird, which allows boarders, and Alta is also making a business decision that skiers appreciate ski only.

For Mad River Glen, I've never been there, but my understanding is it's very old with somewhat antiquated lift equipment and basically they just cant afford to upgrade the lifts to accommodate boarders, so they are ski only by default due to budget constraints more than anything else, again that's just what I read some time ago.

I actually wish there were more places that were ski only, but I am glad there are two legitimately awesome mountains in Deer Valley and Alta that are ski only.

having skied all 3 resorts, there is one that I pretty much will not go back to, because of how icey it is, and its lack of snowfall, and its not the one in vermont. Deer Valley would be the only one truly fun on a board. I have actually snowboarded from the lifts at alta before for a whole day. Its annoying mountain to get around on a board, absolutely to many flats and traverses, if they allowed public snowboarding I bet many people wouldnt go there. MRG I also doubt many boarders would go there, most boarders do not enjoy shark finned bumps.

 

[LKLA]

Personally, I would welcome fewer boarders on the mountain. Then again, most skiers likely feel the same .

But, there is a lot for a mountain to think about before making such a decision. On average, snowboarders account for 20-25% of all visitors. However, there are mountains that have made investments in terrains parks and the like where it might be closer to 35% or 40%.

Snowboarders are less profitable per visit than skiers (spend less money per visit) and participation in snowboarding has fallen about 5% during the last five years, while skiing has grown by approximately 7%. Those two metrics might play an important role behind deciding where to spend resources and which segments of the market to focus on.

If a mountain will loose 25% of its visitors by banning boarders but gain an additional 10-15% in skier visits, revenue might remain the same despite the 10-15% differential if that difference is made up by skiers spending. If a mountain feels that by banning boarders they can raise prices then that might play an important role in their decision as well. Or, they could simply feel they need to differentiate themselves in some way.

 

[mdf]

The worst thing about all of those mountain is Z turned bumps, boarders make round bumps, people who think they are good skiers make Z turned bumps.

People who ski in power wedges shouldnt complain about snowboards scraping snow off the hill.

I agree with Josh. A lot of people's complaints come down to a)they are adolescent through young adult males [less true than it used to be], or b) noticing their flaws while igoring our own.

Snowboarders can probably do damage to powder more quickly, just because they have more surface area. But on groomed slopes, no, they are just like skiers.

The next time you want to complain about snowboarders scraping down on their heelside, take an honest look from the lifts at your fellow skiers. Notice how most of them are scraping straight down the hill with their skis held diagonally... then a quick flip and scrape on the other edges. Pretty much the same effect as a heel slide.

The lack of heel-side visibiltiy is a real issue, but not that big a deal if you watch for it.

The one pet peeve left is spreading out across the hill when they are resting. When skiers stop, they tend to line up down the hill because that lets them have their edges perpendicular to the hill and still talk to one another. For snowboarders to talk they need to be next to each other, not above and below. Sitting vs standing is not the issue, it really is just the direction they spread out.