Ski Tuner Brand Stone/Belt Combi Machine Help

[James]

Well then!
http://svst.com/Machines/Grinding-Emulsions-Wax-Removal/

 

[Hermanator]

Well then!
http://svst.com/Machines/Grinding-Emulsions-Wax-Removal/

Thank you!

 

[Doug Briggs]

You use an emulsion. Ours comes from both Wintersteiger and SVST. Its a concentrate that you mix with water. It cools and cleans the stone and belt.

The return to the tank should have a place for a filter. You use knit tube filter material, cut and knotted to make a hose like filter. Use a large rubber band to secure the open end to the machine's return opening.

Mind you I'm talking about how we do WS and GrindRite stuff, but I have to guess most machines have the same/similar filter system.

 

[Doug Briggs]

The SVST emulsion we use is KoolKut. We have both SVST and WS filter socks.

 

[Hermanator]

Update - I contacted Wintersteiger and they were surprised to see one of these old machines still out there. They have been very helpful and even called me. The Salt Lake City office contacted the Vermont office and found someone who knows about old machines. They think is was built around 1988, not sure of the model - its newer than the 88 Combo but older than the ST1000. They sent me an operator's manual for the Diamond Jim Combo model which is extremely similar but has only one feed motor. Still having a problem getting the feed motors to work. Going to take some more time with the multi-meter to figure out what's going on. And the black button on the side of the control box is a mystery. When I first tried to start the stone/belt motor it pulled down my 9400w generator until it tripped. However, if I hold the black button in while turning the switch on it settles down and runs smooth and quiet.

 

[Doug Briggs]

Feed wheels are nice as they are easier to get consistent pressure, but they aren't essential. When working extraordinarily convex bases or short skis or ones that don't fit the bridge, you often need to do it by hand anyway. Some techs I've worked with prefers to skip the bridge.

 

[Hermanator]

Feed wheels are nice as they are easier to get consistent pressure, but they aren't essential. When working extraordinarily convex bases or short skis or ones that don't fit the bridge, you often need to do it by hand anyway. Some techs I've worked with prefers to skip the bridge.

Thank you, that's good to know.

 

[Wilhelmson]

At the cider mill we had a 300 lb single phase motor for the grinder. It would usually start right up with a flip of the breaker lever but there was a manual capacitor switch or something that we would have to press once in a while.

 

[Hermanator]

UPDATE -

It appears the DC motor controller located in what looks like a fuse box on the back of the machine is fried. So if I want to get the feed motors working it will be $200 for a motor controller and then hope that they work. I think I will just try the old manual hand feed for a while.

I contacted the motor manufacturer and can't get an answer on the button. What I did find out is that the motor has a start code of K. So you take 8.99 x the HP (3) and that = 26.97 kVA, or 26,970 watts to start the motor, even though it only takes around 2,300 watts to run it. I can get it going with my 9,400/7,500 generator but its a struggle. Turning the speed all the way down helps. Wish there was a way to dis-engage the drive belt. Running 220 to my garage is the best option. However, the previous owner ran it from a generator, and no way was it more than 10,000 watts. I am going to try using the jog switch on the back of the machine (used for sanding belt alignment) to coax it up to speed when starting to make it easier on my generator.

The button absolutely looks to be original from the SkiTuner factory - still a mystery.

 

[KingGrump]

Look at the back of the button. Is it a electrical or mechanical connection? See what it is connected to. We used to have large portable compressors that have to button/lever to off load the compressor when starting up.

 

[Wilhelmson]

I'm not an electrician but I hope you numbers are off by 10. Can't imagine a 3 hp motor needing 100 amp 220 to get going, that's 30 hp!

Here's Honda's starting/running wattage chart.

 

[Hermanator]

Look at the back of the button. Is it a electrical or mechanical connection? See what it is connected to. We used to have large portable compressors that have to button/lever to off load the compressor when starting up.

All four yellow wires go directly to the motor

 

[Hermanator]

I'm not an electrician but I hope you numbers are off by 10. Can't imagine a 3 hp motor needing 100 amp 220 to get going, that's 30 hp!

Here's Honda's starting/running wattage chart.

View attachment 75974

Unfortunately, it is correct. An engineer from Marathon Electric, the manufacturer, was nice enough to call me, sent me some info and walked me through it. He says it happens all the time that people don't realize the huge variance in motor starting requirements. Look up SFA codes and how they are used - you will see what I am referring to.

 

[Hermanator]

A little more trial and error - If I press the button on the side once immediately after turning the motor switch on it starts up nicely.

Just need to get some emulsion/fluid and I will be ready to go! We have plenty of old skis around to practice on before they get cut up for more patio furniture...

 

[Hermanator]

Update: After getting some Kleen Machine solution from a local ski shop (SVST doesn't sell retail anymore) and a belt from Fintech Abrasives (great price!) we are up and running! Have definitely had some fun working skis on the machine. Started with a pair of broken SL skis. Then an old pair of beaters I used for course working for years. Was amazed at how much base needed to be removed to get them flat. Also, on a pair of Rossi Sin 7s I stopped before getting them perfectly flat just to save base and base edge. With the belt and stone on an old machine like the SkiTuner Diamond Jim Combo, you can get a ski perfectly flat, can set the side edge at a precise angle (I use a digital angle finder), and put a basic linier structure on the ski. The bracket to set the base angle is too hard to get perfectly set, and too hard to run the ski through perfectly, especially since its so easy to do with a good file and file guide. You really can get a great tune on this old machine. Won't be doing race skis on it just because of the limited structure capability, but its great for rec skis!

Thanks to everyone who chimed in to share insights and experience. Next I'm going to go to the vintage skis in the garage I've kept all these years, like a K2 KVC Comp 77, put a tune on it and give em a try this winter!

This is from one pair of skis...

 

[SkiMore]

@Hermanator your post reminded me of something I saw online recently. Might be good for parts.

 

[Hermanator]

Cool, another one lives (maybe)! The feed is slightly different but the rest of the machine looks identical. Thanks!

 

[oldschoolskier]

Looking at the motor its almost not surprising that you shut the generator down.

You are just shy of 4000watts running full load .

Startup is generally estimated at 2 to 2.7ish times that or 8000 to 11,000 watts. This can last from several seconds to a good 1/2 minute. Fuses, generators and wiring don’t like that. Yours is likely on the higher side of which is just beyond the generator start up capacity likely about 10,400watts peak.

The secondary button must be a soft start to spool up the motor without high in rush currents. Sorry can’t guess at those numbers (don’t know enough about this)

Just remember you are running full load at 34amps at 115VAC and 17amps at 230VAC. More importantly without the button at start up likely 97 amps or 48amps respectively.

Reason for such high currents, this is a single phase motor, farm duty at that (meant for heavy work and higher stall loads). This was likely an aftermarket retrofit to meet local requirements.

Please ensure your feed wires are sized correctly for your safety, wouldn’t be good if your season is cut short because your rebuilding the house because of an electrical fire.

Disclaimer, no I’m not an electrician, however 10 years in the elevator business taught me a lot about motors and power requirements.

 

[Hermanator]

Looking at the motor its almost not surprising that you shut the generator down.

You are just shy of 4000watts running full load .

Startup is generally estimated at 2 to 2.7ish times that or 8000 to 11,000 watts. This can last from several seconds to a good 1/2 minute. Fuses, generators and wiring don’t like that. Yours is likely on the higher side of which is just beyond the generator start up capacity likely about 10,400watts peak.

The secondary button must be a soft start to spool up the motor without high in rush currents. Sorry can’t guess at those numbers (don’t know enough about this)

Just remember you are running full load at 34amps at 115VAC and 17amps at 230VAC. More importantly without the button at start up likely 97 amps or 48amps respectively.

Reason for such high currents, this is a single phase motor, farm duty at that (meant for heavy work and higher stall loads). This was likely an aftermarket retrofit to meet local requirements.

Please ensure your feed wires are sized correctly for your safety, wouldn’t be good if your season is cut short because your rebuilding the house because of an electrical fire.

Disclaimer, no I’m not an electrician, however 10 years in the elevator business taught me a lot about motors and power requirements.

Old School Skier,

As I mentioned in a previous post, I spoke with an engineer from the motor manufacturer, its all about the SFA codes.

The Motor starting code is K which is 8.99

8.99 X 3 (HP) = 27 Locked rotor KVA

Somehow, the red button, when pressed immediately after turning on the motor switch, enables an immediate and smooth start. Once started, there are no issues with power/volts/amps. Grinding or belting the ski does not tax the motor much at all so no power issues after start up.

Its possible that it is a replacement motor, but everything looks very much original.

 

[James]

We went on a bit of a tour around NW Vermont in June and ended up in Hinesburg. Very small town. It's farm country and I guess small manufacturing as there is in the Burlington area. IBM had a microchip plant in Essex Junction for decades that once employed over 8,000 people.

Don't know if the company that made your machine is still there, but there's now a micro brewery.