Ski Slope Security – A new method to help define the level of difficulty

[Pete in Idaho]

Could you elaborate on the proedure?

Just have to leave that to your imagination-I am way too imaginative to comment openly.

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Love the 4 prong method-we do have a lot of logging equipment up here in No.Idaho

 

[Tony S]

The problem isn’t with the trail ratings. It is with self rating skill.

Well shoot. Talk about thread killers. You just pretty much disqualified about half the content on this and every other ski forum. Curse you, Red Baron!

 

[James]

I'm not against changing the trail system rating. Let's not justify it though by claiming "people are dying" because of trail ratings. That's absurd. I would bet that most deaths on trails are more likely skiing beyond one's abilities or the possiblity of control. Ie, too fast > hit ice > hit tree > die. Or catch an edge in a very bad spot. Beginners dying on advance trails? I would say rare.

 

[Sibhusky]

Yeah, after skiing for 35 years the trail that nailed me was a green. Clearly, the root sticking up made it a double black..

I'm not against changing the trail system rating. Let's not justify it though by claiming "people are dying" because of trail ratings. That's absurd. I would bet that most deaths on trails are more likely skiing beyond one's abilities or the possiblity of control. Ie, too fast > hit ice > hit tree > die. Or catch an edge in a very bad spot. Beginners dying on advance trails? I would say rare.

 

[Monique]

Wait, did you guys actually read the paper? Don't you have to log in to read it? I'm curious, but not enough so to sign in anywhere.

 

[Sibhusky]

Wait, did you guys actually read the paper? Don't you have to log in to read it? I'm curious, but not enough so to sign in anywhere.

No, but you can read it online. However, it's some kind of French/English conglomeration with some kind of font translation issue, and basically not worth my time to figure out.

In addition, when I try to read it, there's some kind of embedded ads that keep causing the page to flip to a new location. Not going to download an academic paper. Zzzzzzzz. Especially as we know it's changing slope conditions and crowd levels that impact danger levels far beyond slope inclination.

 

[James]

Wait, did you guys actually read the paper? Don't you have to log in to read it? I'm curious, but not enough so to sign in anywhere.

I did what Sib did. Maybe less. Not sure I made it through the abstract. Once the deaths, then graphs . Increasing something by 1 or 2 is a big percentage when there's only 9. So it was heading south and I got off the freeway for a donut.
Not going to sign up for some spamming site. Or be blinded by blinking ads. If the op was serious about our reading it he'd post a link to a pdf or something.

 

[Pete in Idaho]

You want a study, what conclusion do you want, what will you pay for this research?
I can get any conclusion you want and will have statistics, charts, graphs and testimonials to support you position. How much again is the govt. grant er study fee?

 

[Sibhusky]

It might have been a cool way to charge ski trips to some grant.

 

[mdf]

You want a study, what conclusion do you want, what will you pay for this research?
I can get any conclusion you want and will have statistics, charts, graphs and testimonials to support you position. How much again is the govt. grant er study fee?

...twenty seven eight-by-ten color glossy photographs with circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back...

 

[KingGrump]

A sure bet for ski slope security.

Batteries of Anti Meat Missile Missile.

 

[Bolder]

As a numbers geek I would love to see length and average pitch in addition to colors. I would think <<most>> people understand that average does not mean constant...

If you had that pitch figure available it would be cool to see resorts vying for the "steepest signposted trail."

It also got me thinking about how I ski a resort for the first time. I always head for the (european) blue cruisers to gauge difficulty. If it's something I could ski with my eyes closed then I know they're overgrading. The other thing is I wish the color scale was reversed, starting with black for beginners and ending with green for experts. Somehow giving the hardest runs red and black -- colors that signify anger, fear and death -- doesn't seem right, and it definitely scares beginners. How about soothing colors like mauve or lavender?

 

[jzmtl]

A sure bet for ski slope security.

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Batteries of Anti Meat Missile Missile.

I've said this for years, the best defense is to put a snow berm after every long stretch of slope.

 

[James]

Somehow giving the hardest runs red and black -- colors that signify anger, fear and death -- doesn't seem right, and it definitely scares beginners. How about soothing colors like mauve or lavender?

Isn't that the point? To warn beginners. You know, because they're always wandering into black trails and dying.

Essentially, you're proposing putting cyanide in chamomile tea.

 

[Kneale Brownson]

As a numbers geek I would love to see length and average pitch in addition to colors. I would think <<most>> people understand that average does not mean constant...

If you had that pitch figure available it would be cool to see resorts vying for the "steepest signposted trail."

?

A good many folks have zero understanding of pitch and its figures.

 

[Tricia]

Honestly, I've been on trails that seem more treacherous that weren't terribly steep or gnarly, but because of high traffic...oy.

Meanwhile, this trail is normally a blue square, but this week....I'd say that's a double black.

 

[Tricia]

\

Sadly, "standardized trail ratings" is apparently the new helmet thread.

As others have stated, snow conditions have far more to do with trail difficulty then virtually any other factor. Here in the Northeast USA we get our share of icy conditions. Seemingly every year there's a tragic incident where somebody takes a long side in extremely icy conditions and fatally impacts a tree. Usually this is on an intermediate groomed run as well.

Second place is probably line choice. I can think of trails where one side is a kind of quirky double fall line and the other side -- 100 feet away -- is a straightforward single fall line. And that's on an intermediate groomer!

Steepness, narrowness, obstacles (moguls, lift towers, rocks, trees, etc), light conditions, skier traffic... You'd need a rating system so complex that Einstein himself would give up.

Getting better is not just about acquiring skiing skills but learning to read and respect the mountain environment as well. Mother Nature has been removing careless and / or overconfident humans ever since humans started wandering the Earth. Changing the trail rating system isn't going to modify that.

 

[James]

A good many folks have zero understanding of pitch and its figures.

Good point. Like a road sign with "10% Grade"
Hmm... sounds pretty flat.

 

[jack97]

GNAR point ratings probably don't enhance safety.

There's truth from the above statement. Over at two small hills up my way, they each let a black diamond bump up with no bail out, each post a sign at the entry, one states "ungroomed and experts only" the other "experts only". The GMs clearly believe experts are capable of skiing whatever the mountain has to offer. I have seen more hazards and falls on those trails than I care to remember mainly from near noobs who are on a trail way beyond their skills. Seems these signs are a rights of passage or are bragging rights during the drive home and will never discourage them from trying.

 

[Kneale Brownson]

Darwinism