Ski School Videos by Elate Media

[James]

There is no sideslipping and absolutely no pivoting in PMTS. Pivot slips have no place in that teaching system.

Why no sideslipping?

 

[Corgski]

It was a little challenging hunting down all the segments of Harb's new series, but eventually one linked to another. I think there are six, which are actually titled Lessons 1 to 5, with one lesson having two parts. And then Lesson 5 is labeled as part of Series 2, but I don't think there are any more parts to Series 2, and Lesson 5 is geared toward much more advanced skiers.

I didn't see any teaching of a traverse on the little toe edge in the beginner's series. Parts of the series are just Harb doing demos which are plainly beyond the capabilities of beginners. I felt the new series was disjointed, rough around the edges, and certainly very incomplete as a training tool for beginners. Harb's comments were ambiguous as to who would be the intended audience. Sorry, I think he needs a director and an editor.

Harb's older materials present a much more complete and slower paced method of learning for new skiers.

I've never attempted a direct-to-parallel teaching pathway with a brand new skier. However, with some novice (not first time) skiers who were real hard cases, who just couldn't seem to break out of being real stiff with no edging OR rotational skills in the joints, I have on occasion gone back to basics with a whole PMTS progression, beginning with dryland exercises. It's been somewhat effective.

I agree that side slipping and pivoting are essential skills for developing skiers. I don't know that Harb would disagree.

Yes, Harb's methods can be demanding. It's been noted more than once on this site that PMTS progressions are a lot less intimidating, and just, well, more POSSIBLE, on very gentle, wide-open terrain. Sadly, that's in very short supply at some ski resorts. Teaching methods are in part dictated by the terrain available.

The video I referred to is sold at his site (Eliminate the wedge #3, Super Phantom eVideo). I like the newer materials and feel they are worth paying for but their materials do need some reorganization, it can be hard to know where to start. My impression is that attempts to target PMTS for absolute beginners is fairly limited, their primary market are skiers looking to develop advanced skills, with ski racing being a key focus. This does not mean one cannot repackage some of what they do for a beginner progression, it is just not what they are trying to do. I see they have a new Direct Parallel series which seems to be more beginner focused.

 

[LiquidFeet]

Why no sideslipping?

All PMTS turns are edge-based and edge-initiated, including brushed turns.
But to get an answer that's aligned with PMTS orthodoxy, you'd have to ask the man himself.

 

[Coach13]

The video I referred to is sold at his site (Eliminate the wedge #3, Super Phantom eVideo). I like the newer materials and feel they are worth paying for but their materials do need some reorganization, it can be hard to know where to start. My impression is that attempts to target PMTS for absolute beginners is fairly limited, their primary market are skiers looking to develop advanced skills, with ski racing being a key focus. This does not mean one cannot repackage some of what they do for a beginner progression, it is just not what they are trying to do. I see they have a new Direct Parallel series which seems to be more beginner focused.

I’m sure he will be glad to take your money regardless of level.

 

[Roundturns]

I’m sure he will be glad to take your money regardless of level.

I was told 500 campers a year funnel through the camps. I would have to believe HH bottom line is very good. Good for him. He successfully developed his own product and following.

I have no idea what the top PSIA people make but would bet the farm HH is way better compensated. Like a lot of business successes, if you can develop a successful niche in an industry you can do very well.

 

[Chris V.]

The video I referred to is sold at his site (Eliminate the wedge #3, Super Phantom eVideo). I like the newer materials and feel they are worth paying for but their materials do need some reorganization, it can be hard to know where to start. My impression is that attempts to target PMTS for absolute beginners is fairly limited, their primary market are skiers looking to develop advanced skills, with ski racing being a key focus. This does not mean one cannot repackage some of what they do for a beginner progression, it is just not what they are trying to do. I see they have a new Direct Parallel series which seems to be more beginner focused.

Oh, I haven't seen any of the new paid materials, so I'm in no position to comment. My remarks were addressed to his free video segments, and as I said, the target audience for those could have been made more clear, it was really ambiguous. I agree that Harb's methods are geared more to a pathway to racing, although they could certainly be useful for skiers with other goals. I think that skiers can benefit a lot from his insights and progressions, but would favor using a more varied set of pathways and skill developments than seem to be included in Harb's teaching regimens. He's opinionated, of course, and can be hard to take in more than small doses.

Hats off to anyone who can actually make a good living in the ski instruction world (rare enough), if he's truly helping people.

I think guys like Harb (and many others) don't realize how unbalanced beginners are on the snow.

I can't say one way or the other, but I always wanted to get beginner rock solid confident making a straight run to a return slope in good posture and balance before even attempting the first turn. Good balance makes everything else easy, and bad balance makes everything else well nigh impossible.

We still don't seem to have the video marjoram_sage was seeking, unfortunately.

 

[James]

All PMTS turns are edge-based and edge-initiated, including brushed turns.
But to get an answer that's aligned with PMTS orthodoxy, you'd have to ask the man himself.

But to get from one set of edges to the other you have to.... like...flatten them.

I suspect it's because in order to say stay in a corridor there would likely be some leg steering.

 

[LiquidFeet]

But to get from one set of edges to the other you have to.... like...flatten them.

I suspect it's because in order to say stay in a corridor there would likely be some leg steering.

Someone who is a PMTS follower needs to address this one. Maybe there's someone here who can do that.
But I'll give it a go anyway.

--In PMTS there is no leg steering allowed. That's a Very Big Deal. This is a signature difference between PMTS and everything else.
--Skier releases (flattens) and tips the new inside ski with appropriate foot and leg movements, and both skis will turn.
--Skier keeps tipping that inside ski to sharpen the bottom of the turn.
--Throughout the turn, the skier does appropriate stuff with the upper body to direct weight to the outside ski.
--The outside ski will either track (arc-to-arc) or "brush."
--"Bullet Proof Short Turns," which will travel downhill in a narrow corridor, are brushed.
--The skier determines whether the skis track or brush, but not with "leg steering."
--The control comes from how the skier tips each ski....
--and maybe also with how the CoM is positioned over that outside ski (this last is an assumption on my part).

--Femurs rotate in hip sockets to accommodate the turn the skis are making.
--Femur rotation (leg steering) is a response to how the skis are turning, whether carving or brushing. It's not a cause of brushing.
--Femurs do not rotate in hip sockets because the skier intentionally rotates the skis to sharpen the turn. This is a big no-no in PMTS.

 

[ToddW]

All PMTS turns are edge-based and edge-initiated, including brushed turns.
But to get an answer that's aligned with PMTS orthodoxy, you'd have to ask the man himself.

Pivot slips are bad juju in P__S plain and simple. However, sideslips have their place in drills. Falling leaf type drills to sense fore-aft. Learning to untip a downhill ski to flat en route to developing a weighted release. Etc. In actual skiing, sideslips with pole drags have some utility in whiteout conditions with visibility under four ski lengths when you have to get a group off the glacier after vertigo sets in without going past the piste’s edge (where lurk crevasses, cliffs, etc.) Slipping on flat edges is also a safety move when out of control snowboarders appear.

The difference is that sideslips per se do not irreversibly damage one’s skiing (from that viewpoint) whereas pivot slips do so perniciously. Now performing any sort of active rotary while sideslipping brings about the same bad juju as pivot slips do.

 

[Josh Matta]

Pivot slips are bad juju in P__S plain and simple. However, sideslips have their place in drills. Falling leaf type drills to sense fore-aft. Learning to untip a downhill ski to flat en route to developing a weighted release. Etc. In actual skiing, sideslips with pole drags have some utility in whiteout conditions with visibility under four ski lengths when you have to get a group off the glacier after vertigo sets in without going past the piste’s edge (where lurk crevasses, cliffs, etc.) Slipping on flat edges is also a safety move when out of control snowboarders appear.

The difference is that sideslips per se do not irreversibly damage one’s skiing (from that viewpoint) whereas pivot slips do so perniciously. Now performing any sort of active rotary while sideslipping brings about the same bad juju as pivot slips do.

since your in the northeast, would you like to come show me how you ski off piste in the northeast with out ever doing any sort of active rotary?

I still have yet to see it and I have been asking PMTSer for years to show it.

skiing on trail that look like this


basically stupid icey weirdly shaped moguls, with rocks and ice in the trough lines.

 

[James]

since your in the northeast, would you like to come show me how you ski off piste in the northeast with out ever doing any sort of active rotary?

I still have yet to see it and I have been asking PMTSer for years to show it.

skiing on trail that look like this


basically stupid icey weirdly shaped moguls, with rocks and ice in the trough lines.

That doesn't happen at Abay. Strictly groomers.

 

[Tricia]

But instruction video--a bit lacking. The PMTS stuff is the best, but I'm reluctant to go that route.

I agree that some of the videos demonstrate it well, but I've also seen some regression by a few skiers who became immersed in it and didn't seek other teaching techniques to compliment it.

 

[Dudeabides]

That particular line of videos I've found to be impressively accurate and extremely well presented. Great production value, excellent descriptions of what's going on. If I knew anyone out there who wanted to learn from square one without taking a single lesson I wouldn't hesitate to recommend these videos.

...Of course, as has been said, they aren't a replacement for good instruction. Personalized feedback in the moment with directions for improvement can't be undervalued.

Edit: Also, Josh, those bumps aren't icy I don't know what you're on about.

 

[Josh Matta]

yeah again snow coming up doesnt mean they are powder....

should have videos the same trail today.

 

[Bolder]

The Elate videos are more for inspiration for me -- good production values, can't comment on the tips, but some of the level 5/6 stuff seems useful. Another interesting thing is that he teaches at Serre Chevalier, a great intermediate (and quite large) ski station near Briancon in the southern French Alps. I highly recommend it.