Ski School Best Practices

[Nancy Hummel]

Snowmass has a fenced in beginner area with two magic carpets and a regular chair lift and varied terrain. People can learn without worrying about others racing past them. They can get comfortable on the chair before venturing out with the public.

The rental shop is at the base of the beginner area. The shop people know how to put people in the right sized boots. If there are problems, people can swap equipment and be back on the snow in no time.

 

[Mike King]

I'm a big believer in terrain based learning. We have terrain features that are useful in teaching beginners to ski. Even if these features were not groomed into our beginner area, using terrain is a big help in learning.

 

[Prosper]

The instructor chooses the terrain when teaching a group lesson.

The instructor chooses terrain appropriate for the lowest level skier in the group because safety is a major factor in ski instruction. Over-terrained people don't learn and are in danger of getting hurt. The people skiing at a higher level should have paid for a private lesson if they wanted control over the terrain. Being stuck in a group, and being taught as a member of a group by an instructor who must consider safety of the lowest student in the group, is a product of paying the lower group lesson rate.

The instructor can give valuable instruction to the higher level students while on easy terrain. Bag o' tricks needs to be deep.

What is a reasonable difference in levels among students in the same lesson? Is it OK to have level 4s and 6s in the same group? What about at the upper levels? I take a group lesson every 1-2 years. Due to cost, privates are not an option. For me, one of the more disappointing things that can happen is if there is mixed ability in the group that is not properly identified during the ski off or verbal split. I’ve been told that I’m a level 9 skier when I’ve taken lessons at major, front range CO resorts. In reality, I’m probably more of a mid-level 8. On occasion, I’ve been in lessons with low level 7 skiers and the terrain chosen by the instructor for the entire lesson is not at all exciting or challenging. Most of the time when this has happened there are a few skills that the instructors have all the students work on and most of the time, for me, it has been a skill that I’ve reasonably proficient at. Occasionally I’ve gotten the individualized, valuable instruction that you mention above, but that is the exception and not the rule. Just about all the instructors I’ve skied with are full certs. I’d estimate that about 1/4 of my lessons have been relatively disappointing. Are my expectations too high for group lessons?

 

[karlo]

I take a group lesson every 1-2 years. Due to cost, privates are not an option.

I take a private, half day or full day, once a year towards the beginning part of the season. Half day is actually fine. Yes, costly. This year, I did it with two others, who ski at a compatible level. That helps with cost.

One program I know that did a good job at ski-offs, for advanced skiers, is Extremely Canadian. They have a steeps clinic at Whistler Blackcomb. I'm sure there are others like that.

 

[LKLA]

I take a private, half day or full day, once a year towards the beginning part of the season. Half day is actually fine. Yes, costly. This year, I did it with two others, who ski at a compatible level. That helps with cost.

One program I know that did a good job at ski-offs, for advanced skiers, is Extremely Canadian. They have a steeps clinic at Whistler Blackcomb. I'm sure there are others like that.

Taking a "private" lesson with three people is not really a "private" lesson . At best you get 1/3 of the time/attention from the instructor.

There are many times when "group" lessons have no more than three or four people.

 

[Nancy Hummel]

Taking a "private" lesson with three people is not really a "private" lesson . At best you get 1/3 of the time/attention from the instructor.

There are many times when "group" lessons have no more than three or four people.

Yes, but with a 3 person private, you get to choose the “group” members and you get to choose your instructor. Much better odds of getting what you need.

 

[HDSkiing]

Then there are “best student” practices...

I teach for a ski area that is not a resort but it’s adjacent to a major travel destination. With our steeps, treed glades and high altitude that (most years) gives us great powder skiing we get skiers from everywhere and holidays and weekends we are booked to capacity. Many are NE and many have some skiing ability that they want to improve on. We offer classes for the “inbetween,” skiers who aren’t quite NE but aren’t quite competent on our green slopes which are closer to blues as you go up the mountain, which is a good stepping stone. The problem of course is that many want to go straight to the green (bluish) slopes and aren’t quite ready yet.

Despite our best efforts at vetting, it’s quite common to have students who over estimate their level. So in the interest of safety we practice “trust but verify” by starting on terrain easier than the level they signed up for. Often we bump students down, but that’s not always possible when we are busy, plus that takes time away from the others in the class.

Then there are the parents...many believe because their child was in a green slope yesterday that today they should be in a blue and so on.

“Over-terraining” is a two way street. Because safety is always my first priority when I have someone in a class over their head and I’m unable to bump them down due to logistical reasons then the other more proficient students get less value for their dollar. Challenging the less proficient student with more difficult terrain doesn’t work out well, the rest of the class has to wait for them while they get all of my attention as I try to coach them down, I’ve learned that the hard way.

If you show up during less than peak times and sign up for upper level classes there is a good chance you will end up in a semi private or even private lesson. Show up during peak times and you are one of 5 or 6 or more.

Privates are costly but remember you are getting the Instructors full attention with a lesson tailored to your specific needs. In a group it’s a compromise for time and individual goals.

If you are crafty about when you sign up for group lessons you might get the lower cost of a group with the benefits of a private.

 

[karlo]

you get to choose the “group” members and you get to choose your instructor.

The importance of both can't be understated. So, as it relates to best ski school practices, I think it would help for schools to offer up instructor profiles, just as a guide service would publish the CV's of their guides. As for group selection, so important for members to have the same goals. Within reason, I'd pick that over having the same level.

 

[Prosper]

I do much of what’s been suggested to maximize the likelihood of a good lesson: mid-week, off-season, honest with my ability level and what I’m looking to get out of the lesson. Also, I typically get a few names of some full cert instructors and request for them by name during line up. Sometimes it’s honored but, as expected most of the time it isn’t. I’ve rarely had more than 2 other students in the lesson. Even with such a small group it seems that more often than not skill levels are not well matched. I realize that there just aren’t that many level 8+ skiers taking lessons which probably contributes to the problem I’ve experienced. Sounds like taking a private or arranging for a group private may be the best option.

 

[LiquidFeet]

....In reality, I’m probably more of a mid-level 8. On occasion, I’ve been in lessons with low level 7 skiers and the terrain chosen by the instructor for the entire lesson is not at all exciting or challenging. Most of the time when this has happened there are a few skills that the instructors have all the students work on and most of the time, for me, it has been a skill that I’ve reasonably proficient at....

....I’ve rarely had more than 2 other students in the lesson. Even with such a small group it seems that more often than not skill levels are not well matched. I realize that there just aren’t that many level 8+ skiers taking lessons which probably contributes to the problem I’ve experienced....

@Prosper, you are right that not many high level recreational skiers take lessons, unless their real goal is having a guide and cutting lines. But then racers and ski instructors do engage in continuous training, because they care and their technical mastery matters. I became a ski instructor to get that continuous training.

As a level 8, what are you looking for in improvement of your form? Are we talking ice coast skiing, or skiing out west?

 

[Mike King]

skier "level" is an attribute but commonality of instruction may be as important. For example, a level 5 and 7 might be compatible if they are working on the same issue, say releasing the inside ski, upper body rotation, etc. After all, they may be on the same terrain working on those issues.

Mike

 

[Erik Timmerman]

I’ve been told that I’m a level 9 skier when I’ve taken lessons at major, front range CO resorts. In reality, I’m probably more of a mid-level 8.

Wether you are level 9 or 8.5, I think you'd better get used to a group with an ability split. As long as you are taking group lessons you are always going to have a split.

 

[john petersen]

-Our hill consistently grooms beginner terrain first. then intermediate terrain, ect....
-Luckily, our parking lot is very close to the base lodge
-Our Learn To Ski package includes 2 lessons, each 1.5 hours in length. learn at 9:30 and come back at 11:00 or 2:00 for another free lesson. (we struggle with short lesson times in the east) This package also offers a very cost effective upgrade for more lessons, tickets and rentals.
-We do not pretend to be something we are not.
-as one of the line up managers, we really try to keep group lesson numbers manageable (5-7) and watch for/plan for/help with obvious splits. we also do our best to match private lessons with the right instructors.
-I dislike ski offs these days...so have come up with other ways to get lessons moving along and sorted more organically. Folks come up for lessons at peak times for more than 10-15 minutes after the scheduled hour starts....it takes creativity to make it all happen....instructors need to be flexible and cooperative so work in small teams initially until the sorting hat decides who will go to Hufflepuff and who will be in Slytherin, ect......

I would like to have more training for our junior instructors throughout the season
I would like to have more training for all of our instructors throughout the season!
I would like to have more beginner terrain!
I would love for instructors to have individual approaches based on good sound fundamentals where defensive movements are all but eliminated from our vernacular, practices and mindset!!!!!!!!!

JP

 

[fatbob]

Re terraining I saw a lot of group lessons on more advanced terrain in the Arlberg this weekend than I ever see in the US West. Students seemed to be coping fine.

Now whether it's a feature that cheaper lessons means people take more lessons or that customers feel their skiing experience isn't compromised by under-terraining or just that instructors push their students a bit more I don't know.

 

[karlo]

cheaper lessons means people take more lessons

Are you saying that lessons are cheaper there?