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Ski has no love for Kastle?

TheArchitect

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In all seriousness, it does sound like Stockli is more of a darling than Kastle with Pugs at the moment.

Never been on a Stockli. But got me thinking, when I visited a shop end of last season that carried both, they generally seemed to prefer Stockli and talked up the SR95s to me. I was real tempted, but held off as I've never had a chance to try. It made me really want to demo a pair this season though to see what all the fuss is about.

I feel like the MX89s are as good as advertised. Worth the extra money.


I don't know if Kastle is out of favor here. Maybe there are more people discovering that Stockli is equal or better than Kastle and are willing to pay that even higher premium? I don't keep track of pricing so someone can correct me but I think Stockli as a whole are a touch more expensive.
 

Tricia

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Curvy and built for speed.
Hmmm... I think I'll trade Mamie in.
Have you figured out what kind of TR you can get out of Mamie with her particular side cut?
Edit: to add .....And flex?
 
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KingGrump

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Have you figured out what kind of TR you can get out of Mamie with her particular side cut?

Like the old straight skis, she is built more for speed.
TR doesn't really come into the equation at higher speed.

ETA, I personally like a stiff flex. Get more out of the rebound.
 
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Philpug

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Maybe there are more people discovering that Stockli is equal or better than Kastle and are willing to pay that even higher premium?
I prefer some Stocklis over some Kastles and some Kastles ove some Stocklis. I am sure there are some that are the other was with particualr skis. But under no circumstance is either one of these brands better than the other.
 
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stuckinphilly

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My favorite were the seasons when the original Cochise was ski of the year, and the Soul 7 v 1.0 was the following year's love child. Call me cynical, but don't call me Shirley.
You can call me cynical. I'll own that title.
 
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stuckinphilly

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Cannot confirm or deny that.

As you should, they are awesome skis and have been Tester's Choice skis here going back to the MX88 and Kastle hasn't paid us ad dollar one not even provided us with skis to review. As far as to why they fell out of favor with them? Maybe you should ask them that and not us.

Oh, I wasn't asking. Just stirring the pot.
 

Uncle-A

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In another thread someone mentioned that the wood core of a Stocklis uses a full size board on each outside edge of the core and does not cut the sidecut into the core of the ski and it is one of the quality construction features that make the performance so great. Does Kastle manufacturer the same way?
 

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In another thread someone mentioned that the wood core of a Stocklis uses a full size board on each outside edge of the core and does not cut the sidecut into the core of the ski and it is one of the quality construction features that make the performance so great. Does Kastle manufacturer the same way?

One time at a demo day I asked the Kastle rep what is it that makes Kastle skis more expensive than their competition. His reply was that they only use the finest quality materials (standard ski rep answer) but then he went on to say that "Kastle spends more time milling their skis".
 

NESkier_26

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One time at a demo day I asked the Kastle rep what is it that makes Kastle skis more expensive than their competition. His reply was that they only use the finest quality materials (standard ski rep answer) but then he went on to say that "Kastle spends more time milling their skis".

Must have been a former putter salesman.
 

KingGrump

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I don't know if Kastle is out of favor here. Maybe there are more people discovering that Stockli is equal or better than Kastle and are willing to pay that even higher premium? I don't keep track of pricing so someone can correct me but I think Stockli as a whole are a touch more expensive.

It is nothing as complicated as that. Most of it is CKE (Cool Kid Effect). What are the cool kid on. There is usually a lag at the up take. Then the switch over gathers momentum.
Now, it's about time for a switch up from the cool kids to stay relevant.
 

Uncle-A

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It is nothing as complicated as that. Most of it is CKE (Cool Kid Effect). What are the cool kid on. There is usually a lag at the up take. Then the switch over gathers momentum.
Now, it's about time for a switch up from the cool kids to stay relevant.
So the higher price is only to give it the boutique appeal for the aspirational buyer. The ski has to perform better to maintain it's market reputation, or are the customers only saying they are great because they paid a high price and don't want to look foolish.
 

Wasatchman

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I'm definitely no cool kid. I can't speak for the entire lineup, but to me the MX89 is worth the extra money.

I don't know too much about the brand but I do wonder about some of Kastle's recent moves under new ownership like moving some production to Czech republic, getting back into racing, and introducing a bunch of new models. Those are moves that are not seemingly conducive to a boutique brand.
 

KingGrump

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So the higher price is only to give it the boutique appeal for the aspirational buyer. The ski has to perform better to maintain it's market reputation, or are the customers only saying they are great because they paid a high price and don't want to look foolish.

Not saying that Kastle, Stockli, Renoun, etc... aren't good skis. They are good skis but sometimes there is as much hype as performance. Often one has to take into consideration skier skill set and skier/ski chemistry.
Disclaimer: I have five pairs of Kastle and another four pairs of Stockli in my basement right now. Along with many pairs of Atomic, Volkl, Head & Dynastar.

A good example of the cool kid/keeping up syndrome can be seen in kitchen knives. With the advent of the foodie movement, a lot of my friends considered themselves to be gourmet cooks. Some of them have knife sets that cost between $1K to $2K. Their knife set look something like this.

Knife Set - Wustoff.jpg
And often they will splurge and spring for an additional $10 gadget in the hope that it will keep them out of the ER.

Knife Finger Guard.jpg

I often looked at them, shook my head and muttered "What is the point?" or "You have no clue. Do you?"

Another disclaimer: I have worked in restaurants and have decent knife skills. I also own a decent working collection of kitchen knives. Some expensive and some rather plebeian .
 

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Not saying that Kastle, Stockli, Renoun, etc... aren't good skis. They are good skis but sometimes there is as much hype as performance. Often one has to take into consideration skier skill set and skier/ski chemistry.
Disclaimer: I have five pairs of Kastle and another four pairs of Stockli in my basement right now. Along with many pairs of Atomic, Volkl, Head & Dynastar

I definitely agree the "cool kid effect" is real.

I just happen to think the MX89 is as good as advertised. This is coming from someone that also really likes the K2 Pinnacle which is definitely not a cool kid ski to say the least. I love the Pinnacles skis in soft snow and bumps and it's forgiving/easy nature. But boy, I feel like that MX89 is one smooooth ride and has a great locked in feel that gives me confidence at speed/firmer/cruddy conditions. EDIT: And the MX89 still works fine in pow/bumps. Maybe a little more work than some skis in those conditions, but still enjoyable for my tastes.

And I definitely appreciate if you've been on the MX89 and shrug your shoulders and wonder what all the fuss is about. I feel the same way about a lot of skis from Blizzard that generally get a lot of great reviews. I've been on them like the latest iteration of the Brahma and wonder why they are so popular. That's why I do think it's important to demo skis and not just go purely by reviews- I wonder how many people fit the profile like myself that would like a ski like the MX89 and a K2 Pinnacle.
 
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karlo

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When any ski goes from also ran to top of the chart with only a graphic change, it makes you wonder if NFL referees are doing the evaluating.

or, the Good Wife is now one of the reviewers
 

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Not saying that Kastle, Stockli, Renoun, etc... aren't good skis. They are good skis but sometimes there is as much hype as performance. Often one has to take into consideration skier skill set and skier/ski chemistry.

This is very true. I've said many times that the 3 pairs of Kastles I own seem like they were designed with me in mind. I'll be sad when I need to replace them and hope I can find a good replacement. Not all Kastle's are great for me. I really disliked the FX95 HP I demo'd last year.
 

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Decades ago,back when Volkl was NOT owned by the corp. that also owns K2 and other brands, Volkl skis commanded a premium price. Skis like Explosiv R, P9, P10, Snow Ranger and others all offered superior performance AND extraordinary longevity. I have owned and know friends who have owned Volkl skis with 300+ days on them that still tracked straight and true and wouldn't wash out.

I don't know if my premium priced Kastle MX83 will still be going strong at 300 days but they currently have no speed limit for me as I know I will not be able to ski faster than the ski can handle. When that instability does finally show up, then time to replace but I don't anticipate that happening any time soon.
 

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Decades ago,back when Volkl was NOT owned by the corp. that also owns K2 and other brands, Volkl skis commanded a premium price. Skis like Explosiv R, P9, P10, Snow Ranger and others all offered superior performance AND extraordinary longevity. I have owned and know friends who have owned Volkl skis with 300+ days on them that still tracked straight and true and wouldn't wash out.

I don't know if my premium priced Kastle MX83 will still be going strong at 300 days but they currently have no speed limit for me as I know I will not be able to ski faster than the ski can handle. When that instability does finally show up, then time to replace but I don't anticipate that happening any time soon.
I recall having a conversation with our Volkl rep and the phrase "premium Brand" came up and I mentioned Kastle and Stockli. HE said well Volkl is a premium brand. I said no they are not, they were, but once you start producing $399 package skis you forfeit your right to call yourself a premium brand. You might make some premium models like the V-Werks but you are no longer a premium brand.
 

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