Sizing Down in Boots - The current situation per brand

[chopchop]

Hi,

I'm shopping for new boots and being in Texas (let alone COVID) can't pop over to a great shop to shell fit. So I'm outlaying $ to replicate the process at home. Sound familiar?

To narrow the list and limit my outlay I am seeking help IDing manufacturers where sizing down is highly likely and those where there's no way.

I'm ~272mm and ski a 26.5 and otherwise like the concept of sizing down for a performance fit. Last time I was shopping (2015) I found the Salomon X Max sized down well but Lange RX did not. And Patron Pro was brutal. Ouch!

Among the following brands and models*, would anyone care to comment on this question?

• Technica Mach1 (2020)
• Rossignol Allspeed Elite (2019; I have read that yes, sizing down is very possible)
• Atomic Hawx Elite (2019; I realize there's moldable shell so that may answer that)
• K2 Spyne (2016, 2018; tried on the 2016 years ago in 27.5 but never in 26.5)
• Lange RX LV (2019)

I am hoping that this info will be helpful to others who might be wondering the same thing.

Thanks in advance for any input.

*I realize this characteristic may be a per-model thing and not true for all lines across a brand.

 

[Fuller]

I sized down from 27.5 to 26.5, then down again to 26.5 Low Volume all in the Tecnica line. I'm happy with the performance aspects of my final iteration but my feet are tender.

Given a decent return policy you could do your own shell fit and then asses whether you want to keep going with that pair.

 

[chopchop]

I sized down from 27.5 to 26.5, then down again to 26.5 Low Volume all in the Tecnica line. I'm happy with the performance aspects of my final iteration but my feet are tender.

Given a decent return policy you could do your own shell fit and then asses whether you want to keep going with that pair.

Thanks. This is helpful. I'm considering that exact scenario (Mach1 LV in 26.5) and would be expecting a few punches here & there if it works at all.

Curious - do you know the length of your feet (or longest foot - there's sometimes a difference) in MM?

 

[Fuller]

My feet are about 266mm, the tips of my toes just barely hit the the boot but move back as soon as I pressure the cuff. The instep is super tight putting them on - getting them off is a bugger. I've had a lot of punch work done widening the toe box to accommodate my knobby feet. I was feeling a lot of pressure on my "6th toe" which had to get punched numerous times, funny enough what really worked was to punch out the big toe side to get additional width.

 

[Black Dog]

I think I heard once that the largest size boot any world cup racer is in is size 9? They punch, grind and stretch them to fit?

 

[Philpug]

I hate hate hate the term "sizing down" or more commonly "downsizing". I prefer right sizing. Right sizing is matching the shape of the foot to the shape of the shell. Now, if you want to talk about "performance fit" that is also more accurate that downsizing.

Another thing to take into consideration is shell material, many of these lighter materials allow for thinner walls in the shell. So a thin walled boot that is 296mm will have more interior length than a similar shell size that is a more traditional PU plastic. We are also seeing brands like Atomic making their shells shorter and more efficient. @onenerdykid can expand more here but a 25.5 Hawks Ultra is 290mm where most other 25.5 shells are 295 to 300mm (yes the Raptor is 293mm).

 

[ScottB]

I'm curious about something, if you have a wide foot why would you need to size down on shell size? You need the correct length, and I guess the Shell length can be longer than the stated Shell size. So I guess part of the process is figuring out what Shell size is the correct length. It sounds like a 26.5 Shell is longer than 26.5 cm. I think it's important to get the correct width and make sure the Shell is not too short. Isn't it ok if the Shell is a little long if the width is correct. As long as it's not too long. A lot of boots come in different widths now, so you can get a good snug fit and the appropriate length. With heat moldable boots, you can get one width narrower and expand with heat to get a pain free snug fit. It just seems like the boot fitting game has changed recently. The days of one width boots are going away and getting the width and length correct seems much easier.

I have a long narrow foot, my next boot will be long enough for a change, and narrow. I will probably be in a plug race boot, which will probably be the correct width for a change. In the past I had to crush my toes or swim in the boot.

 

[jmills115]

I have had my feet scanned at the boot fitter and was surprised the Fischer Scan Fit app was as close to what I got at the boot fitter. Using 3 pictures in the app it got the width correct on both and the length was only short 3mm on right foot.
I’m in an Atomic Hawx Magna in a 26.5

.

 

[Castle Dave]

I am in the 2019 Tecnica 130 LV, have a approx 275 foot and am in a 26.5. I have terrible feet but want a near race fit. The Tecnica is made to be modified and is straight foward to punch and otherwise manipulate.

 

[Philpug]

The other area that is rarely discussed is the vamp ( 45* circumference of the ankle). This number should be within one centimeter of the length. @ScottB asks about a wide foot, chances are his vamp in greater than the length of his foot so again I go back to right sizing the boot to the foot, a shell that matches the shape of the foot, not jsut focused in on the length. Length is only one measurement when it comes to getting the right shell.

 

[chopchop]

I have had my feet scanned at the boot fitter and was surprised the Fischer Scan Fit app was as close to what I got at the boot fitter. Using 3 pictures in the app it got the width correct on both and the length was only short 3mm on right foot.
I’m in an Atomic Hawx Magna in a 26.5. View attachment 98885

Curious - Did you heat mold the Hawx shell or otherwise modify for some extra length or go with the stock fit?

 

[chopchop]

The other area that is rarely discussed is the vamp ( 45* circumference of the ankle). This number should be within one centimeter of the length. @ScottB asks about a wide foot, chances are his vamp in greater than the length of his foot so again I go back to right sizing the boot to the foot, a shell that matches the shape of the foot, not jsut focused in on the length. Length is only one measurement when it comes to getting the right shell.

Agree 100%. Could be a whole separate but related thread on instep height and how these differ from one mfg to another.

And just for clarification - I asked this Q originally b/c I want to narrow the list of boots I have to buy just to try on. Length is just one measurement, but the easiest to start with in my circumstances. Unless I'm mistaken (entirely possible) there's no standard descriptor or measure for instep height on most vendor websites.

 

[Philpug]

Agree 100%. Could be a whole separate but related thread on instep height and how these differ from one mfg to another.

And just for clarification - I asked this Q originally b/c I want to narrow the list of boots I have to buy just to try on. Length is just one measurement, but the easiest to start with in my circumstances. Unless I'm mistaken (entirely possible) there's no standard descriptor or measure for instep height on most vendor websites.

You have to throw out the finite numbers when it comes to boots, all they are are referenced points. You are not going to get a boot fit online.

 

[Tricia]

Agree 100%. Could be a whole separate but related thread on instep height and how these differ from one mfg to another.

And just for clarification - I asked this Q originally b/c I want to narrow the list of boots I have to buy just to try on. Length is just one measurement, but the easiest to start with in my circumstances. Unless I'm mistaken (entirely possible) there's no standard descriptor or measure for instep height on most vendor websites.

Volume volume volume.
Quick and Dirty Boot Selection Guide
As said in earlier posts its about a whole lot more than length. You can be in the right length and width but have issues in the heel, or calf, or instep, or...

 

[jmills115]

Curious - Did you heat mold the Hawx shell or otherwise modify for some extra length or go with the stock fit?

My boot fitter punched them first and then heated the liners
The length in the shell was fine on both feet and he adjusted the liner on my right foot to ease a little toe pressure.
There are multiple punches on both boots to get the width needed.

 

[Joby Graham]

I hate hate hate the term "sizing down" or more commonly "downsizing". I prefer right sizing. Right sizing is matching the shape of the foot to the shape of the shell. Now, if you want to talk about "performance fit" that is also more accurate that downsizing.

Another thing to take into consideration is shell material, many of these lighter materials allow for thinner walls in the shell. So a thin walled boot that is 296mm will have more interior length than a similar shell size that is a more traditional PU plastic. We are also seeing brands like Atomic making their shells shorter and more efficient. @onenerdykid can expand more here but a 25.5 Hawks Ultra is 290mm where most other 25.5 shells are 295 to 300mm (yes the Raptor is 293mm).

I can attest to the difference in the fit of the new, lighter Hawx. I replaced my 28.5 Redster WC 130/ 325mm BSL with a Hawx Ultra 120 in a 27.5/311 BSL - same snug, locked-in fit in both models.

 

[chopchop]

I can attest to the difference in the fit of the new, lighter Hawx. I replaced my 28.5 Redster WC 130/ 325mm BSL with a Hawx Ultra 120 in a 27.5/311 BSL - same snug, locked-in fit in both models.

Helpful detail. Thanks @Joby Graham.

 

[jt10000]

I was feeling a lot of pressure on my "6th toe" which had to get punched numerous times, funny enough what really worked was to punch out the big toe side to get additional width.

Interesting.

 

[onenerdykid]

I hate hate hate the term "sizing down" or more commonly "downsizing". I prefer right sizing. Right sizing is matching the shape of the foot to the shape of the shell. Now, if you want to talk about "performance fit" that is also more accurate that downsizing.

Another thing to take into consideration is shell material, many of these lighter materials allow for thinner walls in the shell. So a thin walled boot that is 296mm will have more interior length than a similar shell size that is a more traditional PU plastic. We are also seeing brands like Atomic making their shells shorter and more efficient. @onenerdykid can expand more here but a 25.5 Hawks Ultra is 290mm where most other 25.5 shells are 295 to 300mm (yes the Raptor is 293mm).

Hi Phil, great point. To envision how this works, imagine the shell last first (just the inner foot shape of the lower shell) and then add the plastic thickness around that. Adding thicker plastic to the last will produce a shell with a longer external measurement (i.e. boot sole length), thinner plastic will produce a shorter external measurement. This means that a boot can have a shorter BSL in size 26 like the Hawx Ultra at 300mm compared to a boot with a longer BSL, like the Redster at 305mm. The Hawx Ultra at 300mm does not have a shorter last than the Redster at 305mm. In fact, the Ultra has a longer internal last by a couple of mm than the Redster, despite its shorter BSL.

Additionally, this is not the same as "downsizing". BSL and Mondo Point are not directly related to one another, and this proves that. The internal length of a boot does not necessarily correspond to it external length. Another case in point, look at the normal Hawx Ultra vs. the Hawx Ultra XTD. Ultra has a BSL of 300mm and the Ultra XTD has a BSL of 302mm in size 26. The last of the Ultra XTD is not 2mm longer than the normal Ultra, they are 1:1 the same. The extra 2mm of the Ultra XTD is due the addition of the tech insert at the front of the boot. In order to keep the last length the same between the two boots, we need to add length externally to fit the tech insert. If we would have kept the BSL the same, then the last of the Ultra XTD would have been 2mm shorter, which we did not want to do.

 

[François Pugh]

I think I heard once that the largest size boot any world cup racer is in is size 9? They punch, grind and stretch them to fit?

That may be so, but consider that in order to win the race, the racer must use narrow skis with a restriction on how much lift (height above ski) their set up can have. If I were trying to win a race, I could endure a little pain by having my feet squished for the length of a race, but skiing all day, or even for an hour I want a better fit, even if it means the occasional boot out with my extremely wide ball of foot and my 68 mm skis. I'm not racing on an icy course with injected snow and tight turns requiring high edge angles. When I'm on ice (often), I can always make a wider turn, and my boot will cut into the softer groomed snow when making high angle turns. I've only had one concussion from boot out (that I can remember).