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Northern Rockies/Alberta Silver Mountain (ID) Ownership; 49º North (WA) Future

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chopchop

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There is that. It’s often hit or miss but it’s not like the more PNW areas are without their own ups and downs. Mid season rain and frozen chunder isn’t exactly uncommon.

I'm targeting Inland NW & southern BC. Would you group that in w/PNW like Crystal, Stevens Pass, etc? My understanding is the inland snow is significantly drier.
 

New2

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All the mid-size ski areas in the region are looking to solidify their financial position to some extent... it's a tough business. One of the nuggets of info buried in Mission Ridge's expansion proposal with the Forest Service is that it has never turned an annual profit. I guarantee you that this COVID-19-shortened season didn't change that. And spots like Chewelah and Kellogg are pretty economically depressed, so there's a real need for decently-paying year-round employment. From what I've been able to tell, Tryg Fortun is definitely interested in the long-term development potential of both resorts--not in a long-term charity/money sink.

I'm targeting Inland NW & southern BC. Would you group that in w/PNW like Crystal, Stevens Pass, etc? My understanding is the inland snow is significantly drier.
From what I've seen, Selkirks snow seems pretty comparable to Utah's... wetter but more plentiful than Colorado's, significantly drier than the Cascades (or at least West-of-the-Crest Cascades).

Another top pic imo would be Red and Whitewater.
I haven't been to Whitewater yet, but from what I can tell Red, 49North, Silver, and Lookout are all in a position where they'll be pursuing additional growth throw various avenues. None of them is going to turn into Northstar or Deer Valley overnight, or even in the next couple decades. But don't expect any of them to stay exactly as-is, either. If the thought of a high-speed quad, a paved parking lot, or paid tubing sends you running, then avoid committing to these spots.
Mt. Spokane, Salmo, Baldy, Loup Loup, and Bluewood seem like better bets to stay very old-school. But of course, most people will be happy with a few upgrades here and there... and Silver, 49North, Lookout, and Red are all great mountains now that will likely keep getting better in most skiers' opinions :ogcool:
 
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chopchop

chopchop

so many skis, so little time
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All the mid-size ski areas in the region are looking to solidify their financial position to some extent... it's a tough business. One of the nuggets of info buried in Mission Ridge's expansion proposal with the Forest Service is that it has never turned an annual profit. I guarantee you that this COVID-19-shortened season didn't change that. And spots like Chewelah and Kellogg are pretty economically depressed, so there's a real need for decently-paying year-round employment. From what I've been able to tell, Tryg Fortun is definitely interested in the long-term development potential of both resorts--not in a long-term charity/money sink.


From what I've seen, Selkirks snow seems pretty comparable to Utah's... wetter but more plentiful than Colorado's, significantly drier than the Cascades (or at least West-of-the-Crest Cascades).


I haven't been to Whitewater yet, but from what I can tell Red, 49North, Silver, and Lookout are all in a position where they'll be pursuing additional growth throw various avenues. None of them is going to turn into Northstar or Deer Valley overnight, or even in the next couple decades. But don't expect any of them to stay exactly as-is, either. If the thought of a high-speed quad, a paved parking lot, or paid tubing sends you running, then avoid committing to these spots.
Mt. Spokane, Salmo, Baldy, Loup Loup, and Bluewood seem like better bets to stay very old-school. But of course, most people will be happy with a few upgrades here and there... and Silver, 49North, Lookout, and Red are all great mountains now that will likely keep getting better in most skiers' opinions :ogcool:

Great stuff, @New2. Thanks.

edit: I appreciate your local perspective.

That's crazy about Mission Ridge. Tough business indeed.

I'm not quite as regressive as may appear in earlier posts. In fact I love new high speed quads :) and realize the $$ must come from somewhere. It's really about the principles that drive the principals leading the investment and development. My concern over theme-park-ification of 49N (based on a few data points about Silver & TF's Idaho LLC names) may be misplaced and has largely been assuaged.

As far as 49N investments/plans, I did find it interesting that most of the articles I found about the on-mountain residential development (Sunrise Basin) are from 2015 and 2016. Not much since. And the project's marketing website is gathering dust. The footer says "2016" and the security certificate has expired. Chrome won't even load the site:
 
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DanoT

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Another top pic imo would be Red and Whitewater.
The Canada-USA border may not be open in time for the 2021 ski season.

If the border is open, then you should know that Red gets weather similar to Stevens Pass, which means it gets its share of rain.

Whitewater is the anti-Whistler with the nearest accommodation about 20 minutes away in Nelson, the hippie capital of Canada (both young and old hippies), Higher elevation than Red means drier snow. Whitewater is not that big and doesn't ski all that well between storms, but there is not too much waiting between storms as it gets the most snow of any resort in Canada.
 
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chopchop

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The Canada-USA border may not be open in time for the 2021 ski season.

If the border is open, then you should know that Red gets weather similar to Stevens Pass, which means it gets its share of rain.

Yeah, I was surprised to see averages of 3-5 inches per month Dec-March (in Rossland). I suspect it's less rain/more snow on the mountain, but still.

Whitewater is the anti-Whistler with the nearest accommodation about 20 minutes away in Nelson, the hippie capital of Canada (both young and old hippies), Higher elevation than Red means drier snow. Whitewater is not that big and doesn't ski all that well between storms, but there is not too much waiting between storms as it gets the most snow of any resort in Canada.

Love this insider perspective, @DanoT. Thanks.
 

DanoT

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Love this insider perspective, @DanoT. Thanks.
But wait, there's more:

Ski Canada Magazine once declared Red Mtn as the Best Tree Skiing in Canada. But that was before Whitewater installed the 2k' vertical Glory Ridge Chair in their famous, now former, side country. It rivals Red's trees. Skier's right of the chair is tree skiing about 3 or 4 runs equivalent wide, black diamond consistant fall line for about 1500' vert. then take a switchback cat track or cross the cat track and keep going for about 500' vert of double black diamond tree skiing.

Ski Canada mag also dubbed Whitewater, Best Cafeteria Food in Canada. Think, the kind of food that you might get in Nelson (hippy capital of Canada) only better. Former owners, wife had a catering business which served the Vancouver (Hollywood North) film and TV industry. And she wrote a cook book that has several editions. Folks take the 20 minute drive from Nelson to Whitewater not to go skiing but to have lunch.
 

Wasatchman

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Thanks for the question @DanoT (and all the great responses so far).

What I mean by Disneyfication is turning a ski mountain and its environs into a 4-season family fun destination. Not just focusing on it as a place for great skiing.
I suppose it depends on how tasteful it is done as I think a lot of ski resorts in general are trying to look at ways of diversifying revenue beyond purely winter.

I think PCMR has done a reasonable job of their summer stuff. Meanwhile, Snowbird's ridiculous summer roller coaster is silly and a bit of an eyesore. Weird, huh? Goes against the stereotype of Vail being Disney and Snowbird being rad. That Snowbird coaster is literally the most Disney thing I've seen at a ski resort. I hope they give up and just focus on the mountain biking. So fair point to consider it a risk, but be careful on assumptions of who is likely to pursue Disney style summer attractions. It's a risk just about everywhere unfortunately.

Edit: that Snowbird coaster could have been so much more ridiculous and ugly if not for opposition

 
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Thread Starter
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chopchop

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I suppose it depends on how tasteful it is done as I think a lot of ski resorts in general are trying to look at ways of diversifying revenue beyond purely winter.

I think PCMR has done a reasonable job of their summer stuff. Meanwhile, Snowbird's ridiculous summer roller coaster is silly and a bit of an eyesore. Weird, huh? Goes against the stereotype of Vail being Disney and Snowbird being rad. That Snowbird coaster is literally the most Disney thing I've seen at a ski resort. I hope they give up and just focus on the mountain biking. So fair point to consider it a risk, but be careful on assumptions of who is likely to pursue Disney style summer attractions. It's a risk just about everywhere unfortunately.

Edit: that Snowbird coaster could have been so much more ridiculous and ugly if not for opposition


Ha - good example.

And a good point: It's a risk everywhere.
 

DanoT

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That Snowbird coaster is literally the most Disney thing I've seen at a ski resort.

Revelstoke is more of a summer tourist town than winter, so RMR's 900'vert mountain coaster has them lined up in summer. So much so that the local skiers joke that the mountain coaster subsidizes winter operations.
 

Wasatchman

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Revelstoke is more of a summer tourist town than winter, so RMR's 900'vert mountain coaster has them lined up in summer. So much so that the local skiers joke that the mountain coaster subsidizes winter operations.
Oh wow. Had no idea Revelstoke had a coaster. Ughhh. Such a weird concept. Aren't these people going there for the natural alpine beauty rather than looking to ride on an inferior Disney style coaster? Isn't a scenic chairlift ride good enough? Can you imagine the conversation? Where should we go this summer? How about Banff? Nah, that place sucks, they don't even have a coaster. Let's go to Revelstoke instead.

Funny thing is if you polled pugski members I bet Snowbird and Revelstoke would rank near the bottom of most Disney like.
 
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DanoT

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Oh wow. Had no idea Revelstoke had a coaster. Ughhh.
The coaster at RMR is accessed from the lowest gondola which most people, due to very low elevation (1600'asl) and therefore crappy snow conditions, only ride at the start and end of the ski day. So the mountain coaster is not really noticeable.
 

Wasatchman

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The coaster at RMR is accessed from the lowest gondola which most people, due to very low elevation (1600'asl) and therefore crappy snow conditions, only ride at the start and end of the ski day. So the mountain coaster is not really noticeable.
Snowbird coaster is a real eyesore but is at the bottom of one of the lifts fortunately and doesn't go very high up to totally screw up views. Not sure why they bothered as it doesn't look much fun as it doesn't really look like much of a coaster and as I said in above post, who the heck is heading up to the mountains with the intention of riding an amusement park ride. I would have sworn its something only us Yanks would be into but I see you Canadians are in on the action.
 

pchewn

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At Mt Hood Skibowl, we ski on top of the alpine slide coaster track, once it's filled with snow. Mt Hood Skibowl does much more business in the summer than in the winter. Summer activities include Mt Biking (lift served), bungee jump, alpine slide, ziplines, go kart cars. It is Disney in the summer and dirtbag skiing in the winter.
 

David Chaus

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At Mt Hood Skibowl, we ski on top of the alpine slide coaster track, once it's filled with snow. Mt Hood Skibowl does much more business in the summer than in the winter. Summer activities include Mt Biking (lift served), bungee jump, alpine slide, ziplines, go kart cars. It is Disney in the summer and dirtbag skiing in the winter.
That’s on the Skibowl East side, right? You also drive through town to get to that side, so it connects the town restaurants and retail to the “resort experience.”
 

raisingarizona

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Oh wow. Had no idea Revelstoke had a coaster. Ughhh. Such a weird concept. Aren't these people going there for the natural alpine beauty rather than looking to ride on an inferior Disney style coaster? Isn't a scenic chairlift ride good enough? Can you imagine the conversation? Where should we go this summer? How about Banff? Nah, that place sucks, they don't even have a coaster. Let's go to Revelstoke instead.

Funny thing is if you polled pugski members I bet Snowbird and Revelstoke would rank near the bottom of most Disney like.

You don’t have kids eh?
 

Bad Bob

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Most of the STUFF at Silver the Condos, water park Gondi were started by previous ownership Hagadon Hospitality. Its' long time name was Jackass Skibowl and it just doesn't get too much more local than that. It may have more trimmings now but the same heart beats in the mountain. I have not skied there much in the past 2 seasons but did buy the combo pass with 49° North for the coming season, I like the place a lot.

Was a little worried about what was going to happen at 49° North so talked a bit to those in the know and they have some really good plans for my hill I can get behind. With that said COVID-19 re prioritized some of those plans, but some have started.
The day lodge got some much needed spiffing up.
They are doing major expansions on the snow making right now to get more consistent openings and coverage on the lower terrain. The ultimate plan, as I was told, is to add snow making up Silver Ridge (the main top to bottom run) to insure better coverage longer in the season.
There are serious plans for a new lift to parallel Chair 1 (the top to bottom workhorse of the ski area) and use the old chair to feed the top 1/2 when weekend crowds make it desirable. Look at the layout of the hill and the top of chair 1 creates a really nice 1,000' vertical area all by itself: trees, glades, moderately steep groomers, bumps, not bad off of 1 chair. 49° needed the infusion to stay viable in the market, it is a greatly underused ski area.

Schweitzer is the 800 lb gorilla in the region for being a 'resort'. Silver runs a far distant 2nd, while Mt. Spokane and 49° North are a full lap behind. Lookout Pass is a whole different layer of laid back, they still have free lesson programs for the kids (that is not very Disney in anyone's book).

The actual skiing is really good at all of these places but don't tell anybody else please.
 

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