Northern Rockies/Alberta Silver Mountain (ID) Ownership; 49º North (WA) Future

[chopchop]

(This is more of an industry question, not news. Moderators: please move this thread as needed.)

Tryg Fortun bought 49º North in Chewelah, WA last year. I'd love to hear from folks who have insight into how Disney-fied Silver (which he bought in 2016) has become. What "kind" of mountain it has become. In the event anyone has insight into TF's plans for 49º North and is willing to share that would be great.

The Why: I'm looking at 49º N as a possible 2020/21 ski destination rather than SLC. Possibly as a seasonal, long-term spot. But the latter, at least, would probably change if I knew resources are lining up to turn the area and mountain into a year-round family theme park. Just not my thing.

Anyone with knowledge and insights into this - would love to hear from you.

 

[pchewn]

I skied Silver Mt last year for 2 days and it was my only time ever there. I would have never thought of Silver as "Disney-fied". Just the opposite I'd love to go back.

Ski areas I've recently been to, and how much "Disney-fied" they are (in my opinion). Higher number, [1-5] high level of Disney-fication

Silver Mt Idaho: 2
Loveland Basin : 2
Mt Bachelor: 3
Mt Hood Meadows: 4
Timberline Lodge: 3
Mt Hood Skibowl: 2
Winter Park Colorado: 4
Mission Ridge WA: 3
Baldy Mt (Canada, near Osoyoos) : 1
Mt Baker WA: 2
Badger Mt WA: 0 http://www.nwwintersportsman.com/BadgerMt/index2.htm

I don't really like Disneyfication, so I've avoided areas near the 4-5 scale (Vail, Keystone, etc....)

 

[Posaune]

Man, you're tough on the ratings. To give Mission Ridge a 3 blows me away. They don't get much more local than Mission.

 

[pchewn]

Man, you're tough on the ratings. To give Mission Ridge a 3 blows me away. They don't get much more local than Mission.

I've only been there once. Yeah, could have gone with a 2 rating.

I did not do any sort of thorough analysis -- just spewed out numbers based on vague memories.
The point I was trying to make is that Silver Mt is not something I would call "Disneyfied"

 

[David Chaus]

Silver may have a gondola, but it is an older-ish gondola. The hotel and indoor water park at the base is the only Disney-fied part of the resort, and actually way out of character with the rest of the place. The lifts are all fixed grip and the on-mountain lodge is pretty old-school/local.

If you are really looking for a destination-type place as an alternative to SLC, also take a look at Schweitzer. While the infrastructure is more modern and it has more development around the base, it is nowhere near as crowded as SLC resorts.

 

[DanoT]

What exactly is Disneyfication as it relates to ski resorts? Is it the number of detachable lifts? Condos? Skier visits?

 

[pchewn]

What exactly is Disneyfication as it relates to ski resorts? Is it the number of detachable lifts? Condos? Skier visits?

It can't be defined "exactly". It's a perception or a feeling.

 

[chopchop]

What exactly is Disneyfication as it relates to ski resorts? Is it the number of detachable lifts? Condos? Skier visits?

Thanks for the question @DanoT (and all the great responses so far).

What I mean by Disneyfication is turning a ski mountain and its environs into a 4-season family fun destination. Not just focusing on it as a place for great skiing. So, for (hypothetical) example, on-mountain or adjacent there's a waterpark, tubing runs, mini-golf, etc. Not just a few acres of condo development and a some retail.

Where's this question coming from? Reports that after purchasing Silver, TF registered several LLCs with the names: "Golf, H2O, F&B, Village Management, Powder and Apartment."*

Based on these few data points, seems like TF may have a vision for something more than just great runs, grooming, new bathroom fixtures in the lodge, and a few upgraded lifts. To be clear, all of this is fine. It's just not what I'd want to buy into, and thus the post to gather intel from this great community.

*https://www.spokesman.com/stories/2016/oct/20/seattle-businessman-buys-silver-mountain-resort-in/

 

[chopchop]

Silver may have a gondola, but it is an older-ish gondola. The hotel and indoor water park at the base is the only Disney-fied part of the resort, and actually way out of character with the rest of the place. The lifts are all fixed grip and the on-mountain lodge is pretty old-school/local.

If you are really looking for a destination-type place as an alternative to SLC, also take a look at Schweitzer. While the infrastructure is more modern and it has more development around the base, it is nowhere near as crowded as SLC resorts.

Thanks on both points, @David Chaus. This is the kind of verification (re: Silver) I was hoping for.

RE: destination - I have heard great things about Schweitzer (right @fatbob??) . But this time around (COVID-era skiing) I am actually looking for a medium, local-type hill that's not sexy enough to attract crowds. But also one that's 90-120 mins or less from legit hills. 49 N is exactly that (Schweitzer and Red and a bit further to Whitewater).

Powder Mountain is also in the mix but it's getting really dolled up by the Summit folks; at $1,300 for a pass it's overpriced; and it's not as off the grid as it used to be just a few years ago.

Either would be fine for how I do ski "trips" - long stays of 2-3 months. But I'm thinking further down the road to buying and so am digging a little more for local forces that will shape the future of the place (Chewelah/49N).

 

[Posaune]

I wold guess that Silver is a better place for all of those amenities than 49.

Silver is on I-90 (I mean almost directly on top of it) and the parking lot is as low as you can get around there. When I was there it was a powder day with a decent base at the ski area but there was no snow in the parking area. There's a middle school right next to the gondola.

49's closest town is the well known (I jest) Chewelah, WA. You actually need to drive into the mountains to get to the base. While it's about the same distance to Spokane from each, the urban non-skier crowds will like the location on the interstate and better road conditions at Silver more.

 

[chopchop]

I wold guess that Silver is a better place for all of those amenities than 49.

Silver is on I-90 (I mean almost directly on top of it) and the parking lot is as low as you can get around there. When I was there it was a powder day with a decent base at the ski area but there was no snow in the parking area. There's a middle school right next to the gondola.

49's closest town is the well known (I jest) Chewelah, WA. You actually need to drive into the mountains to get to the base. While it's about the same distance to Spokane from each, the urban non-skier crowds will like the location on the interstate and better road conditions at Silver more.

More great intel. Thanks @Posaune!

 

[David Chaus]

Let’s say that at some points there is a trend of others, like you @chopchop, who are tired of SLC, much less CO, and decide to make the extra connecting flight to Spokane. These different people may want different things in a ski experience, however a number of them will want modern lifts, updated base facilities, lodging, restaurants, shopping and other amenities (even indoor waterparks).

Schweitzer has the most modern infrastructure and base village amenities of all the resorts in the Inland NW. If you want slopeside accommodations, they have it. If you want valet parking they have that. If you want to take a shuttle from the parking lot at the bottom of the access road and save yourself driving 20 minutes up to the resort, they have that. What is also cool is that you can still park for free, click into your skis and ski down to a lift, or walk uphill a short distance and have a choice of 2 HSQ’s. At the end of the day you can ski to your car.

As a region, the Inland NW is strong on locals’ mountains with old-school vibe and amenities.

 

[chopchop]

Let’s say that at some points there is a trend of others, like you @chopchop, who are tired of SLC, much less CO, and decide to make the extra connecting flight to Spokane. These different people may want different things in a ski experience, however a number of them will want modern lifts, updated base facilities, lodging, restaurants, shopping and other amenities (even indoor waterparks).

Schweitzer has the most modern infrastructure and base village amenities of all the resorts in the Inland NW. If you want slopeside accommodations, they have it. If you want valet parking they have that. If you want to take a shuttle from the parking lot at the bottom of the access road and save yourself driving 20 minutes up to the resort, they have that. What is also cool is that you can still park for free, click into your skis and ski down to a lift, or walk uphill a short distance and have a choice of 2 HSQ’s. At the end of the day you can ski to your car.

As a region, the Inland NW is strong on locals’ mountains with old-school vibe and amenities.

Awesome detail here. Especially that last point. I have met two Spokane area gentlemen on two forums (including this one) and both have been friendly, knowledgeable and downright helpful. I'm aiming to drive up there in July or August to meet some locals, get a taste for the lifestyle, hiking, culture, and maybe a paddle on the Columbia.

Thanks again @David Chaus.

 

[markojp]

Man, you're tough on the ratings. To give Mission Ridge a 3 blows me away. They don't get much more local than Mission.

No kidding... 2 max on a busy day.

 

[raisingarizona]

What exactly is Disneyfication as it relates to ski resorts? Is it the number of detachable lifts? Condos? Skier visits?

X2. What are these qualifications?

 

[raisingarizona]

Disregard, it’s been covered in here.

Ever ski around the four corners region? Even during the busiest weeks at telluride you’ll never get crowds like you do in LCC or the I-70 corridor.

Bouncing around between CB, Telluride, Silverton, Taos, Santa Fe, Durango and Wolf Creek for a couple of months would be amazing imho.

 

[DanoT]

Small ski areas near small populations are imo, not generally in danger of too much expansion but rather do they have enough financial chops to survive a financial downturn or pandemic?

More importantly than that is, does the ownership have legit ski industry experience and is not just a wealthy avid skier? Best 2 examples that I know of are Revelstoke and Kicking Horse, started with inexperienced developers and ended up with flawed lift systems that do not spread skiers out around the mountain and not enough new cutomers to adequately correct the flaws with several additional lifts.

 

[chopchop]

Disregard, it’s been covered in here.

Ever ski around the four corners region? Even during the busiest weeks at telluride you’ll never get crowds like you do in LCC or the I-70 corridor.

Bouncing around between CB, Telluride, Silverton, Taos, Santa Fe, Durango and Wolf Creek for a couple of months would be amazing imho.

Yes on Taos and Wolf Creek. Both lots of fun. My concern would be snowfall, but I don't disagree.

 

[chopchop]

Small ski areas near small populations are imo, not generally in danger of too much expansion but rather do they have enough financial chops to survive a financial downturn or pandemic?

More importantly than that is, does the ownership have legit ski industry experience and is not just a wealthy avid skier? Best 2 examples that I know of are Revelstoke and Kicking Horse, started with inexperienced developers and ended up with flawed lift systems that do not spread skiers out around the mountain and not enough new cutomers to adequately correct the flaws with several additional lifts.

My understanding is current owner kept past owner on as GM.

Sounds like 49N may be insulated from the concerns I expressed. Makes more sense that TF just wants to level facilities up to equal or better that Mt. Spokane. But, to your point, any investment timelines have probably slowed down quite a bit.

 

[raisingarizona]

Yes on Taos and Wolf Creek. Both lots of fun. My concern would be snowfall, but I don't disagree.

There is that. It’s often hit or miss but it’s not like the more PNW areas are without their own ups and downs. Mid season rain and frozen chunder isn’t exactly uncommon.