-
For more information on how to avoid pop-up ads and still support SkiTalk click HERE.
Sidewall Planer. Do I need it?
- Thread starter Jerez
- Start date
Getting sidewalls right is amazingly tricky.
I thought mine were fine, but after reading this thread I checked again. Look at the residue left on a stone after a pass along the edge. You should see some gray right next to where the stone meets the guide. A visble residue anywhere else indicates a problem.
When I first started down this road, I had a orange smear (my sidewall color) on the stone, well away from the edge. I got a sidewall cutter and very satisfyingly got the orange stuff out of the way. I thought I was fine.
But looking more closely I realized there is a bead or dark gray stuff (adhesive?) between the metal edge and the orange sidewall. Three of the edges were fine, but the fourth was leaving a line on my stone, and the distance from the guide to the line matched the distance to that bead.
I tried adjusting the cutter that had worked so well on the main sidewall. I couldn't get it to hit that bead without taking a lot of the sidewall. Eventually I used a coarse file freehand holding it at a steep angle so only a small part touched and it only hit the gray bead. That worked.
(I also went over the other 3 edges that seemed to be ok, just to be sure.)
I thought mine were fine, but after reading this thread I checked again. Look at the residue left on a stone after a pass along the edge. You should see some gray right next to where the stone meets the guide. A visble residue anywhere else indicates a problem.
When I first started down this road, I had a orange smear (my sidewall color) on the stone, well away from the edge. I got a sidewall cutter and very satisfyingly got the orange stuff out of the way. I thought I was fine.
But looking more closely I realized there is a bead or dark gray stuff (adhesive?) between the metal edge and the orange sidewall. Three of the edges were fine, but the fourth was leaving a line on my stone, and the distance from the guide to the line matched the distance to that bead.
I tried adjusting the cutter that had worked so well on the main sidewall. I couldn't get it to hit that bead without taking a lot of the sidewall. Eventually I used a coarse file freehand holding it at a steep angle so only a small part touched and it only hit the gray bead. That worked.
(I also went over the other 3 edges that seemed to be ok, just to be sure.)
The variability of sidewalls has led us to use our old Grindrite edger specifically for removing the sidewall. If I'm going to set a 2* side bevel I'll set the Grindrite to 3* and make passes until I just start to hit the edge. It leaves a nice smooth surface, doesn't take off any more than is necessary, leaving sidewall to support the edge as @Primoz recommends. This method will take off enough for a few tunes. As with all things tuning, you need to use your eyes and judgement to see if you are getting the job done properly and make adjustments as you determine that you aren't getting the desired results.
Removing the sidewall helps prolong the life and efficiency of our Trimjet disc edger's discs by requiring fewer passes and eliminating the residue that can be left by 'edging' the sidewall with the disc.
In the dark ages I used to use the end of a file to pull back the edge, but that was before we had file guides. It works, but it can leave the same jaggy sidewalls that can happen with a regular sidewall planer.
The most important thing to take home from this discussion is not whether you need a planer or not, but whether or not your sidewalls are planed. If you have only a few pair of skis to do, the time and trouble of learning to use one properly can easily outweigh the cost of buying one vs having a shop do it for you.
Removing the sidewall helps prolong the life and efficiency of our Trimjet disc edger's discs by requiring fewer passes and eliminating the residue that can be left by 'edging' the sidewall with the disc.
In the dark ages I used to use the end of a file to pull back the edge, but that was before we had file guides. It works, but it can leave the same jaggy sidewalls that can happen with a regular sidewall planer.
The most important thing to take home from this discussion is not whether you need a planer or not, but whether or not your sidewalls are planed. If you have only a few pair of skis to do, the time and trouble of learning to use one properly can easily outweigh the cost of buying one vs having a shop do it for you.
Let's see now ......sidewall can be scratched by aluminum, aluminum scratched by steel edge, steel edge is cut by file and stone..... yet the soft sidewall causes issues for sharpening edges for some. 
.
Strange over all my years the sidewall never caused me any issues. Always got the right angles. Must be doing something right.
.Strange over all my years the sidewall never caused me any issues. Always got the right angles. Must be doing something right.
Let's see now ......sidewall can be scratched by aluminum, aluminum scratched by steel edge, steel edge is cut by file and stone..... yet the soft sidewall causes issues for sharpening edges for some.
Strange over all my years the sidewall never caused me any issues. Always got the right angles. Must be doing something right.
I believe it has to do with the cutting characteristics of the tools used on the individual materials. Which is to say the ability of a particular tool to remove one material isn't necessarily the same as another material. A stone is more effective on metal than on plastic, for instance.
I know for sure that the ceramic disc edgers will melt plastic and gum up the disc.
The soft sidewall gums up the cutting surface of the stone it doesn't dull it. A file is coarse enough for it not to matter.
Many people are confused by how to use a tool, even a simple one, because they never look and assess what is happening to their work piece. Did you know that there is a right way and a wrong way to place an edge file in a tool holder depending on whether you are pushing or pulling the file? A file is a directional tool, you can run it backwards all day and still not get anything done.
The Swix edge planer only has 2 adjustments plus the ability to rotate the tool to a fresh cutting surface - very sophisticated!
Things like this are not intuitive for people who don't work with their hands or perhaps are just not curious as to how things work.
Many people are confused by how to use a tool, even a simple one, because they never look and assess what is happening to their work piece. Did you know that there is a right way and a wrong way to place an edge file in a tool holder depending on whether you are pushing or pulling the file? A file is a directional tool, you can run it backwards all day and still not get anything done.
The Swix edge planer only has 2 adjustments plus the ability to rotate the tool to a fresh cutting surface - very sophisticated!
Things like this are not intuitive for people who don't work with their hands or perhaps are just not curious as to how things work.
No arguments about that
, just stirring the pot a bit.Do I want one, yes, would it make life easier, yes, is it required (for me at least so far), no.
But in fairness to power grinders, definitely a requirement or you are asking for a world of frustration at best.
I might add what changed my view was that one of my skis has had the sidewalks done (very professionally and the skis come from a member on this site) it definitely makes life easier.
It is on my list of tools to buy or make (and no it is not that difficult to do, just finding the the time is).
I was talking to the local rep about that tool. He is quite convincing so it is good to have independent confirmation before I plunk down for it. You may have just gotten Chip a sale. Do you know Chip Ford? If you've met him, you'll remember him.
He was also saying that the 'old' way of planing so that you removed a ton of material was passe. Nowadays you just want to remove enough to let the file and stones get to the edge leaving as much material as possible to support the edge.
Unarguably true, but getting side bevels right (which OP is certainly capable of) is a reasonable test piece/entry; beyond that I find it reasonable to assume that DIY people have awareness of what effects their actions are having.
But...yeah...phoning it in is one of my pet peeves too (see other thread about someone repolishing nice sharpened edges with a mismatched guide).
That's why a sharpie and a loupe are your friends if you are serious about getting your edges right. A planer and bevel guides are only as good as your ability to determine that you are achieving the desired results. Tuning isn't hard, but it isn't brainless (or shouldn't be), either.
- Joined
- May 6, 2017
- Posts
- 847
Doug, I don't know him. I met Dave Peszek on the Chair in Sun Valley once. He used to be the Product Manager for Holmenkol and I still use much of his tuning technique from his articles in Ski Racing magazine many years back. Is Holmenkol and FK/SKS related somehow?I was talking to the local rep about that tool. He is quite convincing so it is good to have independent confirmation before I plunk down for it. You may have just gotten Chip a sale. Do you know Chip Ford? If you've met him, you'll remember him.
He was also saying that the 'old' way of planing so that you removed a ton of material was passe. Nowadays you just want to remove enough to let the file and stones get to the edge leaving as much material as possible to support the edge.
Here is an old article he wrote I just ran across http://www.houseshields.com/index.p...5-alpine-ski-racing-ski-side-wall-preparation
Let's just say Chip is a character and has around longer than screw in edges. He's the guy BC has tuning skis for course workers and others that show up with dull edges at the top of the BOP lift during the WC and World Championship events. He has some tales to tell from his long and exciting life. Like the time he was....
- Joined
- Dec 2, 2015
- Posts
- 24,928
And a file should cut ptex but it doesn't.Let's see now ......sidewall can be scratched by aluminum, aluminum scratched by steel edge, steel edge is cut by file and stone..... yet the soft sidewall causes issues for sharpening edges for some.
Strange over all my years the sidewall never caused me any issues. Always got the right angles. Must be doing something right.
Has the op gotten a planer yet?
Jeez, who cares if your sidewall isn't perfectly smooth. Yeah sometimes you get bumps in it. There's techniques to get rid of that, avoid that. Maybe just get the 7 deg pansar plane. I don't get it. The same people who are worried about bumps on a sidewall probably ski soft snow anyway and aren't skiing speed events.
Artech or Reliable Racing had the "cheap" FKS planer on sale for $8. It's not a great tool, is a little tricky to use, but I've used one for nearly 20 years. Decent for travel anyway as it's small.
Just get something and stop debating.
Thread Starter
TS
I actually ended up using my tungsten file. Seemed to do a decent job on the sidewall and left it smooth. That thing cuts like butter. (I fit your description @James. Prefer soft snow, although this year... roll eyes... and I don't race.) The thing is, I couldn't do an exact run on the sidewall and not get the metal edge at a slightly greater degree than the edge except by eyeballing it, which made me a bit nervous. I do intend to get the planer. Not an expensive one because I'm basically a hack. But I needed to tune the skis before I could manage that.
- Joined
- Dec 20, 2015
- Posts
- 8,475
I've done this with good results, but sheesh, it takes the patience of a Zen Monk.
Dead wrong.
If you have any feel whatsoever for metalworking, what gets done when you pull a file backwards is that you spend the rest of the day with a slightly nauseous feeling in your gut from the sound it made (and how it felt).
....
Dead wrong.
If you have any feel whatsoever for metalworking, what gets done when you pull a file backwards is that you spend the rest of the day with a slightly nauseous feeling in your gut from the sound it made (and how it felt).
QFT
