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L&AirC

L&AirC

PSIA Instructor and USSA Coach
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356
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OK. I did use it this weekend and then we lost power. I don't think anyone needs a play by play as it appears to have been covered. What I do want to do is add a couple points that I thing are worth mentioning.

First and foremost, WEAR A MASK! I forgot to at first. I had probably made two or three passes on each side with the coarse wheel. Realizing I forgot, I decided to blow my nose to see if there was any dust. OMG! It came out silver! I won't make that mistakes again. I don't like wearing masks because I also wear glasses and they fog easily, but it is much easier to deal with than crap in your lungs.

I also made a rookie mistake. I pressed the center of the ski too far down to get a good bite and didn't check that the wheel wouldn't hit the center vise; it did. It wasn't a big deal and two back and forth passes made everything OK again, but still, don't do that.

I had put sharpie marks on the edge to see if I was getting full coverage and I was., but it took a few passes. It doesn't look to be an exact match for my side edge guide, but pretty close. I don't expect I'll be using it much anymore thought.

I did make sure to check the side wall. I was pretty sure it was good but gave it a couple light passes anyway.

All in all, I'm very happy with this purchase.
 

Dr. Jim Taylor

Booting up
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2
Razor-Tune has one big design advantage. Many of the other power ski tuners are placed on the edge with the base vertical, meaning that they sit rather precariously on the sidewall and can easily slip off and grind the edge the wrong way. But the Razor-Tune sits across the base with the base facing up, providing a stable platform and a solid feel.

There are several benefits to this design. First, it is nearly impossible for the Razor-Tune to slip off and ruin an edge. Second, you don’t need a vise to hold the ski in place while using the Razor-Tune. Third, you can use the Razor-Tune in the parking lot with a cigarette lighter car adapter. And, you’ll soon be able to use the Razor-Tune anywhere with its soon-to-be-released rechargeable battery pack (imagining laying down a razor-sharp edge at the start of a second race run).

Well, I’ve never endorsed a product before, but I’m doing so here because the Razor-Tune blew me away. I decided to start on my own last year’s SL skis because I wanted to get some practice before I tried it on my daughters’ race skis. I read the directions and watched the instructional video and then I dove right in. I felt a bit awkward at first as I got a feel for the Razor-Tune. But within 15 minutes, I felt like “Chief,” the long-time World Cup technician whom I had gotten to know when I worked with Team America a few years ago. Admittedly, of course, I only felt like him, but the results were still remarkable in three ways.

First, the edges were far sharper than anything I did using a file and stone. By gosh, my girls won’t have any excuses when they race on injected snow this winter! Second, in the past, it would take me upwards of 20 minutes to sharpen a pair of skis. But with the Razor-Tune, I had a pair of skis incredibly sharp in less than five minutes. Third, it was easy to get comfortable with using the Razor-Tune and the icing on the cake was that I didn’t screw up and ruin any skis. In fact, the Razor-Tune is so easy to use, my daughters have learned how to use it.

So, if you want to get your kids’ skis razor sharp this winter, or even better, if you want your kids to get their own skis razor sharp, in much less time, then I recommend that you run to your computer and order a Razor-Tune. I promise that your spouse and children will thank you. And you’ll also thank yourself because you’ll have so much more time to devote to what really matters in your ski racing family; tuning your own skis. Kidding!
 

Dakine

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Dec 21, 2015
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1,155
Location
Tip of the Mitt
Razor-Tune has one big design advantage. Many of the other power ski tuners are placed on the edge with the base vertical, meaning that they sit rather precariously on the sidewall and can easily slip off and grind the edge the wrong way. But the Razor-Tune sits across the base with the base facing up, providing a stable platform and a solid feel.

There are several benefits to this design. First, it is nearly impossible for the Razor-Tune to slip off and ruin an edge. Second, you don’t need a vise to hold the ski in place while using the Razor-Tune. Third, you can use the Razor-Tune in the parking lot with a cigarette lighter car adapter. And, you’ll soon be able to use the Razor-Tune anywhere with its soon-to-be-released rechargeable battery pack (imagining laying down a razor-sharp edge at the start of a second race run).

Well, I’ve never endorsed a product before, but I’m doing so here because the Razor-Tune blew me away. I decided to start on my own last year’s SL skis because I wanted to get some practice before I tried it on my daughters’ race skis. I read the directions and watched the instructional video and then I dove right in. I felt a bit awkward at first as I got a feel for the Razor-Tune. But within 15 minutes, I felt like “Chief,” the long-time World Cup technician whom I had gotten to know when I worked with Team America a few years ago. Admittedly, of course, I only felt like him, but the results were still remarkable in three ways.

First, the edges were far sharper than anything I did using a file and stone. By gosh, my girls won’t have any excuses when they race on injected snow this winter! Second, in the past, it would take me upwards of 20 minutes to sharpen a pair of skis. But with the Razor-Tune, I had a pair of skis incredibly sharp in less than five minutes. Third, it was easy to get comfortable with using the Razor-Tune and the icing on the cake was that I didn’t screw up and ruin any skis. In fact, the Razor-Tune is so easy to use, my daughters have learned how to use it.

So, if you want to get your kids’ skis razor sharp this winter, or even better, if you want your kids to get their own skis razor sharp, in much less time, then I recommend that you run to your computer and order a Razor-Tune. I promise that your spouse and children will thank you. And you’ll also thank yourself because you’ll have so much more time to devote to what really matters in your ski racing family; tuning your own skis. Kidding!

I'm curious about this "razor sharp" comment. When I hone in a real razor on a fine Arkansas stone followed by a strop impregnated with diamond paste, it doesn't feel sharp but it cuts "like a razor." Usually, when people say something feels sharp they are feeling a burr on an incompletely honed edge. How do you judge "razor sharp"?

Also, "razor sharp" is really too sharp for skiing. Many tuners have told me to do a pass with a gummi stone if you can cut yourself on the edge.
 

smoothrides

Delivering Speed
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48
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Truckee & North Tahoe
I've had a bunch of race parents asking me about the Swix Evo so I figured I should pick one up and test it out first hand. I have first hand experience with the Snowglide, Trione, Protek, Carrot/Montana, Discman and Edge Tune Pro 1 and 2. All the machines put out a similar disc finish, with the exception of the Edge Tune Pro, which I could never seem to get a decent result with...but it's also the cheapest option out there. The others are all professional grade machines costing 2 to 5 times more than the Evo, and do a great job, with varying degrees of functionality and usability. Out of the box the Evo seemed like a child's toy, and my expectations were low, but I was pleasantly surprised.
20171108_165259.jpg


It shipped with the fine disc, but I also ordered the medium and course.
20171108_171556.jpg


I pulled back the sidewall and then back cut a Head GS ski to 87.5 with a crude 120 grit belt edger.
20171108_171316.jpg


On my first pass with the Fine disc it cut most of the edge. Three passes had full cut from tip to tail, and a respectable finish.
20171108_172638.jpg


The edge is sharp, with only the slightest burr, but unfortunately the angle came in around 88.5. In the picture you need to read the left side of the line on the bevel meter for an accurate reading. I tried a few more passes but couldn't hit 87. The first couple passes weren't getting into the titanal layer at the top of the edge, but by the end we had a full cut there too. Sometimes this can give some push back, and cause you to cut a lower angle, but the angle stayed constant until I bumped it to 86.
20171108_171445.jpg


Next I went to the course disc with 86 on the dial. This is a pretty course finish, but acceptable for rec skis and training.
20171108_172010.jpg


The finished angle was about 86.5-87 depending on where I checked, which leads me to believe there's definitely some operator error. I measured the angles on the Evo and they were all -0.2 from accurate, so not too bad. If I were using this machine for my kids race skis, and they were supposed to be a 3 degree side edge, I'd definitely just set the machine to 86, and be a little over, rather than a little under.
20171108_172702.jpg


The point where I initiated the machine to the ski has a couple crude disc marks, but nothing crazy, and the rest of the cut looks fairly consistent.
20171108_174641.jpg


The medium disc is just what it sounds like, but I think the fine disc is the way to go for anyone serious about their edges.
20171108_172459.jpg


After about a dozen passes I'm very comfortable with the machine, but my results are still +/- 0.5 degree depending on where I check. All in all I think it's a good value if you don't deal in any type of volume, and you're okay with some inconsistency. It's also very compact and light weight, so it would be great for travel. The one thing I would highly caution against, is using the machine without a respirator, or without taping the base of the ski. It throws lots of ultra fine metal dust, and at one end the base tape ripped, and as you can see, it left some nasty marks.
20171108_174820.jpg


After brushing the marks are still apparent.
20171108_174952.jpg


Fine metal dust.
20171108_172607.jpg


The disc change mechanism is the simplest I've seen.
20171108_171736.jpg
 

Tony S

I have a confusion to make ...
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My rule of thumb when it comes to gear and equipment (not just skiing) is to figure out which one I need and then get the next model up. I like good gear and struggle with poorly made equipment. I'm also a believer in buying well made things so I don't have to buy them repeatedly. I'm not really sure why I was doubting myself this time.

Razor Tune it is.

Well, there you have it.
 

Tony S

I have a confusion to make ...
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I would also say the learning curve to use it is less than learning to file edges.

Well, that's not saying a heck of a lot, imho. ;)
 

BGreen

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@smoothrides Do you think your angle problems with the Swix are just a reflection of your Evo Pro (poor manufacturing) or all Evo Pros (poor design).

It seems that maybe the Evo with a fine disk is reasonable for daily maintenance between professional tunes.
 
Thread Starter
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L&AirC

L&AirC

PSIA Instructor and USSA Coach
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Posts
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After using this a couple more times and finally skiing the skis the Razor Tune sharpened, I thought it would be good to add some additional comments.

Prep -
Make sure the path of the Razor Tune is clear; vise parts not in the way of the wheel and nothing on the bench to snag the cord.
Make sure the skis aren't going to shift horizontally. You don't want them sliding inboard near the tip and tail.
Get everything you don't want metal dust in out of the area (brushes, wax, wine/beer glass etc).

While sharpening -
As already mentioned, wear a mask. Metal dust is everywhere. Because I wear glasses I kept pulling it down when I wasn't grinding so my glasses wouldn't fog and/or to take a sip of wine. That also meant that now and again I would forget to put it back in place, so watch for this.

Also, because of the dust, you need to be prepared for it and figure out how to deal with it. I'm seriously considering modifying my bench set up so there is a section just for sharpening away from everything waxing. Need to find a way using either a vacuum or magnets to control it.

As Smoothrides mentioned, you need to protect the base. I also noticed I was going through way more fiberline than normal and made sure to hot scrape as well. This was the first tune of the season and I had to shape as well as sharpen the edges and wasn't just touching them up, so I'm sure there was more than normal, but even accounting for that, it's a bit.

On Snow Performance -
Not sure if it was a placebo or not, but I have never had such sharp edges. They just got on edge and held it. There wasn't a lot of ice yesterday but there was some on the trails that had shade on them and it made it a non issue. And that was just going as far as the Medium wheel. Can't wait to see what the Fine one yields.

Handling skis -
Be careful picking your skis up even when they are base to base with the brakes locked together. It just feels like if the skis slid in my hand, I would slice my finger.

Have fun,
Ken
 

James

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Dec 2, 2015
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How's the burr made from these machines?
The racers I know who were using TriOnes all the time were obsessed with burr removal. They spent probably more time on that then machining the edge. The last thing they wanted was an edge that wouldn't release.
 

hbear

Out on the slopes
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It’s very slight and easy to take off with a ceramic.
 

SkiBigHead

In the parking lot (formerly "At the base lodge")
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How different is this than traditional routers already in many home workshops? Can someone with a steady hand just get the correct angle bevel grinder bit and run that down the ski with a traditional router?

The short answer is not that different, except all of these tools that either utilize existing routers - like the Fogman which was using Bosch last I saw - or are having their own router produced are all slowing the speed down to roughly half of what the tool comes with out of the box. Just like metal and wood cutting tools/bits are rated for certain speeds, the various discs used in every machine has a limit and they're all significantly lower than a fixed speed finish router. A variable speed router might be an option, but it would take some fine tuning to get the speed right.
 

Captain Furious

A ticking time bomb of fury
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I picked up a Protek from a board member last week and I'm very happy with how easy it is to use. Very simple but accurate machine. Much easier to get a good, sharp edge than doing it by hand. I don't pretend to be a competent tuner but now, with this machine, I can tune my skis super fast and sharp. So glad I picked it up.

Bill
 

Dwight

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I was able to snag the Sidecut sharpener by Black Diamond Innovation.

I have used it few times now and it seems rather easy to use. Did a pair of older skis first to make sure I didn't ruin a pair.

Now in the instructions it does say to use a file to create the initial bevel. This machine can do 2-5 degrees.
I like that it runs on the full base and glides rather smoothly. I don't have any measuring tools to check the accuracy but it does look like a consistent grind.

The unit has magnets to pick the shavings, so less dust is in the air.

Hopefully in a month I can have some intelligent details about it.


20171228_180347.jpg
 

hbear

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They say that machine can go travel in both directions as well. (At least in the sidecut video).

Looks sturdy and easy to use.
 

Dwight

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I have a few more pairs under my belt now. I like using it, but sometimes miss the feel of using stones manually. :)

I have been doing a friends pair this season and he's now getting picky when his edges are not sharp. :)

I keep forgetting to do a test on metal dust in my nose. This machine has two strong magnets that collects a lot of it. That is the one thing that is hard to clean off. All the filings on a round magnet.

My season is basically done, but will have a few more edges to sharpen for pond skimming days.
 

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