Side Edge Grinder's Performance Vs. Return On Investment

[L&AirC]

There aren't enough threads on Side Edge Grinders so I figure I should start another one

What I'm trying to unsurfaced is which one is "worth it" to me? What's the Return on Investment (ROI)?

I've read everything (I think) posted here. Watched many, many, many youtube videos and visited all the Manufacture's sites. The high end one's are out of my budget(Tri One, Carrot, Protek, Snowglide etc. I think I got that right). For me, it is coming down to the Razor Tune and Swix Evo.

From my research I've come to the conclusion that what I want is the Razor Tune. It appears to be made of higher quality and I like the idea that the weight sits on the base of the ski. What I like about the Swix Evo is I have access to one at a significant discount to include replacement/spare discs. This weighs in as maintaining it can end up being much cheaper, even if things don't last as long.

My needs aren't as stringent as some. I don't race Masters though I do race beer league. And of course there is all the coaching I do here in NH so I do want and appreciate a sharp ski. I have almost every tool you can think of to take care of skis. Some I can even use correctly , so I already have what I need to set and maintain my edges. I also have too many pairs of skis of my own and I take care of some family members as well. It really comes down to time.

What I'm looking for is to be able to sharpen my skis and maintain the sharpness, in as little time as possible. I would like to get them as sharp as when I tune by hand. I lack the ability to say "good enough", when I tune by hand, it takes me a very long time. Too long and many folks tell me how they have all their skis done in the time it takes me to do one pair. I work in manufacturing an have looked at process improvements and ways to shorten the time, but what I won't do is skip a step. I probably don't need to do so many steps but the routine is set and I feel like I cheat when I don't (don't judge).

Like in manufacturing, one of the ways we look to shorten the time is a "step improvement". If a process takes a certain amount of time, we look to see if there is a machine that can do it at least as good (preferably better) in less time, but there has to be an ROI. $1M for new equipment to save $200K isn't worth it. $1M to save $1.1M is.

For me, I see the time saved by the RT or SE is worth it and am trying to see which one is the better investment (higher ROI).

So...
Is the extra money I would have to spend on the RT worth it if they both get the skis just as sharp and both take about the same amount of time?

Thanks,
Ken

 

[Tony S]

when I tune by hand. I lack the ability to say "good enough",

I resemble this remark. LOL. Not that I do that great a job, objectively. Just that it's as good as I can make it.

 

[Tony S]

Ken is a pretty experienced tuner. I'll bet he learns to take full advantage of the tool quickly.

 

[Philpug]

I regathered my thoughts after rereading the original post. A tool like this is as much about the job as it is about saving money and time. I think sounds like a tool that you would enjoy having. Remember too, that tool like this is like owning a pick up truck, you will be amazed how many friends will be coming out of the woodwork...oh, can you throw a quick tune on my skis, it won't be but a moment....

 

[Blue Streak]

It's also a chick magnet

 

[Started at 53]

Wow, cool tools

 

[BGreen]

It all comes down to the value of your time. I can’t tell you what the time difference is, but it’s significant. Last year I mostly stopped using files. I would get the ski ground and then maintain the edge with diamonds. I would say I needed a grind every three days unless I was on watered down snow (we generally hose and till rather than inject). Now that I have one I’ll probably use it every other day. What is hard to wrap your mind around is that if your angles are set, your edges are not rock damaged, and the skis are reasonably sharp to start with, three passes per edge and you’re sharp and polished.

Edge grinders put a premium on proper sidewall prep and making sure your bases are flat. It doesn’t take much base wobble to effect the side angles.

 

[Started at 53]

Question

Any grinding will remove at least some material, how many times can this be done?
Note: Razor Tune has spring tension to as not to take off too much material it seems

 

[BGreen]

Grinding takes off less than filing. You can get three season out of a ski grinding vs two filing.

 

[Started at 53]

Grinding takes off less than filing. You can get three season out of a ski grinding vs two filing.

Thanks

 

[crgildart]

How different is this than traditional routers already in many home workshops? Can someone with a steady hand just get the correct angle bevel grinder bit and run that down the ski with a traditional router?

 

[L&AirC]

I think I need to edit my original post. I'm not asking if edge grinders are worth it. I've already figured that out (for me) and the answer is yes.

My question is for my needs (coaching and beer league), is the extra money spent on the Razor Tune over the Swix Evo worth it? I can get the Swix Evo with all the optional discs for less than the Razor Tune basic with one disc.

 

[L&AirC]

How different is this than traditional routers already in many home workshops? Can someone with a steady hand just get the correct angle bevel grinder bit and run that down the ski with a traditional router?

I would think the weight of the router alone would make this too risky. There would be a lot of weight hanging over the edge. Also, I don't know of any discs made for routers. The bits I know of are metal bits for cutting wood.

 

[L&AirC]

I regathered my thoughts after rereading the original post. A tool like this is as much about the job as it is about saving money and time. I think sounds like a tool that you would enjoy having. Remember too, that tool like this is like owning a pick up truck, you will be amazed how many friends will be coming out of the woodwork...oh, can you throw a quick tune on my skis, it won't be but a moment....

And like when I had a pick up truck, I was paid in beer

 

[crgildart]

I would think the weight of the router alone would make this too risky. There would be a lot of weight hanging over the edge. Also, I don't know of any discs made for routers. The bits I know of are metal bits for cutting wood.

You could mount the router upside down through a table and just run the ski along the bit with a fence set to give a perfect 3 degree bevel every time. I know I saw a world cup tuning room video once where it looked like they were using a 1/2" router by hand too.. It was an inverse bit so it ran with the base of the router flat on the base of the ski. I would agree trying to run it on the edge of the ski with the ski on its side would be a disaster. @Primoz might be able to explain what I thought I saw..

Anyway, something like this with a grinder bit instead of a cutting bit would be cool..

 

[L&AirC]

You could mount the router upside down through a table and just run the ski along the bit with a fence set to give a perfect 3 degree bevel every time. I know I saw a world cup tuning room video once where it looked like they were using a 1/2" router by hand too.. It was an inverse bit so it ran with the base of the router flat on the base of the ski. I would agree trying to run it on the edge of the ski with the ski on its side would be a disaster. @Primoz might be able to explain what I thought I saw..

Anyway, something like this with a grinder bit instead of a cutting bit would be cool..

If you could get every thing worked out, yes. Doing it this way would also mean making sure the table and plate are perfectly flat as well and to make sure to keep the ski flat as it passes through. Fences usually are set for straight things to keep them moving straight. Skis aren't straight. I suppose if you have everything already, it'd be worth a go.

I don't know what the RPMs of a router are but heat might be an issue as well.

Give it a try (on your skis) and let me know how it goes. I have a router and getting a table for it is less than the Evo or RT

 

[Started at 53]

Is there some reinventing of the wheel going on here?

 

[cantunamunch]

I think I need to edit my original post. I'm not asking if edge grinders are worth it. I've already figured that out (for me) and the answer is yes.

My question is for my needs (coaching and beer league), is the extra money spent on the Razor Tune over the Swix Evo worth it? I can get the Swix Evo with all the optional discs for less than the Razor Tune basic with one disc.

You've already amortized the biggest hassle in my book - breath protection and air filtration. Once past that hurdle it's an ecosystem choice - I rather see Swix here as analogous to xiaomi or your choice of android phones from China where razor is like Apple.

 

[KingGrump]

Along the router/trimmer line of thinking. Edge Tune Pro uses a Dremel tool, a commercially available grinding bit and a spec guide to accomplish that goal.
It's a bit crude. The set up does not appeal to me. In particular the small diameter of the grinding bit. Also I am not comfortable with the run out of a Dremal tool under load.

Looks like most higher line units utilized a spring loaded shaft with a much larger diameter diamond grinding cups. There are various designs to control depth of cut.
From the sound level, the machines probably runs about 7,000 to 10,000 RPM. The larger diameter cups allows for lower RPM but higher rim speed. Good way to dissipate the heat generated.

Most trimmer/small routers runs around 25,000 RPM. There is a lot of power, torque and weight there. Bit of a over kill. Still lots of design work ahead. IMO, not a good ROI for the additional time required.

 

[BGreen]

@L&AirC I sent you a PM, but after spending 20 min. talking with owner of Razor Tune, I'm convinced it is a better value. While the initial acquisition cost of the Swix is lower, the total cost will balance out as possibly as soon as one year. While I was planning to recommend the Swix to parents because of initial price, the Razor Tune is ultimately the unit that gets my recommendation.

As a side note, a differentiation of the Razor Tune that isn't listed on their site (that I've seen) is the wheel is canted like the Monty/Carrot, which is a feature I wish mine had. The result is a cleaner finish and less of a cross hatch pattern.