SIA 2017: Reports from the Floor

[Muleski]

Sailing foul weather gortex is the bomb for really wet days.

Has been our rain go to......pretty much forever. The newest foul weather gear is used in the water, and that which it replaced {though still functional} goes with the ski gear. Yep.

Of course, do I really want to be out when it's that wet? Not as much as I once did!

 

[fatbob]

The outer fabric wets out in continuous rain even where the DWR beads reasonably well. I recall reading some studies a few years back that concluded 70 mins was a reasonable limit for staying totally dry in goretex in Scottish Highland rain.

 

[Tricia]

The outer fabric wets out in continuous rain even where the DWR beads reasonably well. I recall reading some studies a few years back that concluded 70 mins was a reasonable limit for staying totally dry in goretex in Scottish Highland rain.

I've seen reports like this as well. Mostly these garments are designed to be water proof for snow conditions. Expectations of acting like a rain coat are unreasonable.
Areas where I was soaked through were mittens, around my neck where I was opening my jacket to document the skis I was testing, (and trying to keep my test sheet dry) as well as the area under my arms from the pit zips. I don't think its unreasonable for a jacket intended to be skied in during snow conditions to have limitations in actual pouring rain.

 

[Gnarvin]

I don't claim to be a Goretex expert, but I can definitely say that Goretex is not only supposed to be waterproof in snow. Goretex is designed to be waterproof, in the rain and in the water. I whitewater kayak as another hobby, and Goretex drysuits are top of the line for whitewater kayaking. These drysuits are designed to keep you completely dry in a submersion (extremely important in frigid waters). Expedition whitewater kayakers trust their lives on the Goretex drysuits to keep them dry. As you can imagine, the amount of water and the water pressure experienced during whitewater kayaking exceeds any rain storm.

It seems like your issue is not with the Goretex itself, but design limitations of the jacket. For a jacket to be completely waterproof it needs to be seam sealed and to have waterproof zippers. You also can't blame the Goretex for letting water in the huge hole that your head goes through. Drysuits have a latex gasket that goes around the neck to keep water from coming in there.

 

[Read Blinn]

Sailing foul weather gortex is the bomb for really wet days.

Really? Marine foul weather gear? Interesting. They used to say gortex wouldn't work in the marine environment. Things must have changed.

 

[Tom K.]

The cost itself was waterproof, but I had some water seep in through the pit zips. The pants were wet on the outside but dry inside
My mittens are a different story.

(Cue goofy Mexican beer commercial voice):

I don't always ski in the rain, but when I do, I quit when I can wring water out of my gloves!

 

[Tony S]

The Blizzard Sheeva 10 is unbelievable and should be on the radar of any woman who's looking for a narrowish powder ski.

Is there a unisex analog for this model? Just curious.

 

[markojp]

Really? Marine foul weather gear? Interesting. They used to say gortex wouldn't work in the marine environment. Things must have changed.

Drastically...

 

[Muleski]

One of our folks knowledgeable in the world of patents could probably tell us when WL Gore's various patents on the GoreTex branded membranes expired. There are MANY top end manufacturers who still see value in having the GoreTex brand on their stuff. And others who use the exact same membranes which they private label,

No different in the marine world. 15 years ago, almost every makers top end stuff "was GoreTex". Now some are. Some not. Like ski clothing, foul weather gear comes in different grades, different weights, different layering.

I grew up doing a lot of sailing and sailboat racing. I am just old enough that ski racing was not a year round sport {maybe one summer trip} unless you were on the WC. So I have been in the water all of my life...60+ years.
In recent years, I have been in some bad weather. The worst was probably 18 hours of hurricane force winds, and about an two inches an hour of rain. With the best gear, our crew stayed dry while on watch. Scared to death, but dry,

There was a time when some thought that lightweight, "inshore", gear with early GoreTex did not breathe well, and was clammy. Like anything else, the technology with this stuff keeps getting better and better. And the price for the best makes any ski clothing look reasonable. The key is to crew for somebody who outfits the entire crew in the latest and best! Just like getting deals in the ski business!

And plenty of gloves that shed a lot of water, and keep you warm.

 

[mxpowder]

Any one ski any of the narrow new boots... Lange etc?

 

[Monique]

There's more than one type of Gore-Tex.

 

[Gnarvin]

That's true, but they are all waterproof and breathable.

 

[Muleski]

There's more than one type of Gore-Tex.

Hence my using the plural, membranes. There are many. But very little exclusivity as the patents have expired on a many/most to my understanding. Still a lot of value to the brand as so many think it's the generic term for "high end waterproof." So clothing companies want to use it.

I recall meeting Bill Gore when he was just getting into this business. Pretty amazing to see how it grew. In many directions.

 

[Alexzn]

There are many inaccuracies floating around waterproof membranes. Blister had a pretty good write up on it written by a guy who understands the tech (materials science) as opposed to marketing BS. GoreTex is still GoreTex, there is no comparable private label membrane. I don't believe anyone else makes a stretched PTFE membrane backed by thin polyurethane layer. So that patent expiration thing is likely a canard. EVent on the other hand has some private label analogs, DryQElite is one of them. While eVent and GoreTex have the same basic membrane structure (ePTFE) they differ drastically in the way they protect the membrane from fouling. Neoshell has a different structure altogether (this is what gives it stretch among other things). Most private brands are a simple polyurethane coating on the fabric. Membrain, Dermizax, Entrant, HyVent, and countless others are all polyurethane, which is inferior in breathability to Gore and event. It is durable, very waterproof, and usually stretches well, however. As an editorial comment, I'm still amazed at people paying $$$ for Kjus outerwear that is protected by the same polyU membrane you find in bargain basement skiwear. Luckily a typical Kjus customer does not tend to exert too much, and so polyU works just fine.

 

[Alexzn]

There's more than one type of Gore-Tex.

No, there is not. The membrane is laminated to different fabrics, with backing, w/o backing, with fleece, w/out fleece, etc. but the membrane itself remains the same. They do tweak it year to year but that's invisible to consumers.

 

[neonorchid]

Anyone know anything about the latest version of NeoShell, unofficially referred to as Neoshell 2.0 Neo-Neoshell and being used by Straf and Mountain Hardware?

 

[Philpug]

Any one ski any of the narrow new boots... Lange etc?

DIdn't ski the Lange but did ski the Atomic Hawx 130 Ultra and the Head Raptor, both skied verly well but different. I could feel the light weight of the Atomic which made the shell feel vey efficient and quick. The Head was actually skied with my Boot Doc liner because it was more comfortable tha the stock liner, the shell was more powerful than the Atomic which is no surprise with it's thicker shell. Both boots were skied on the right foot with my Lange RS 140 with the Boot Doc on my left. I did try on the new Atomic Redster 130 which is a 93 last but I did not ski it, it would need to be punched in the 1st and 5th toe.

 

[DanoT]

Someone told me the other day that Gore-Tex (and presumably other membranes) work best in a shell because it requires pressure from a wearer's body to get maximum performance. Thus an insulated gore-Tex jacket does breath as well. Does anyone know if this is true or BS?

 

[Alexzn]

True to an extent. The " pressure" that is mentioned is actually the vapor pressure gradient that I talked about. Insulation obviously modulates that gradient to an extent, reducing breathability a bit, but in all honesty not by that much. Good insulation is very vapor permeable, so won't make much of a detriment to GTex function. In other words I would not worry about an insulated Arcteryx jacket, it works just fine. If you wear a fleece under gTex, it's ok too. I would not wear a soft shell under gTex unless you need maximum warmth.

 

[Rod9301]

Actually, depends on insulation. Down under goretex is a bad idea, it will get wet from perspiration.