Seeking playful groomer ski for a long term serious relationship

[Rod MacDonald]

I wouldn't get too concerned. Was taking a bit of poetic license with that 'swearing at'. I just didn't gel with them for carving in the same way I did with the iTitans, Fischer GTs or last year's Rossi Exp84. The owner of that pair of XDRs was very attached to them - in fact I was a little surprised he offered the test drive.

I kind of feel if I don't make friends with a pair of skis very quickly it's probably best to try the next speed date.

I had the pre-graphene titans for a couple seasons, but I just fancied a change, and they're way lighter.
We'll see...

 

[Josh Matta]

Id sell you my 179cm XDR 84ti for cheaper than anything you ll buy new.

its very good groomer ski, I am getting rid of it because its not as good in bumps and my Brahma....but actually better in powder.

 

[Rod MacDonald]

That's the exact ski I have.

 

[Mendieta]

Head Supershape iMagnums - great carvers but way too heavy and not at all playful in the bumps

I have the rallies. They are stiff. But they are not heavy. The magnums are more of a dedicated carver for what I hear.

You'll need to be a curvy ski with a sub-80mm waist and you'll need to assist me in demo tasks for CSIA L3, and especially shorts turns, advanced (carving) parallels and bumps. which may be assessed on boiler plate ice or hero snow depending on luck. In return I promise to wax you every 3-4 days and maintain your edges.

Haha. I love the tone of your post.I think, the part in bold seems to be the driving force here.The CSIA L3 exam. If that's the case:

I’ll make it easy for you: Head iSupershape Rally. Of course there’s many other options, some similar, others less so, but it’s the single most popular ski for exam tasks with the CSIA L3 and L4 crowd in BC. Just get it, then focus on improving the archer rather than obsessing about the arrow.

^^^^^^ This!

I would ask other folks in the CSIA system for thoughts. I am no instructor so I can't really help, but I am not surprised that the Rally is so popular for exam tasks. I have been running my Rallies for the last 1.5 seasons (all of last season, and so far this season) on all types of snow (including bumps). They truly are versatile. More here. If you do get them, I would suggest keeping the 1/2 tune and experimenting moving them forward a little.

Good luck with your new long term relationship

 

[Deadslow]

(Just an unrelated note on the Head Rally's - the factory base bevel is 0.7. )

 

[Slasher]

If you do get them, I would suggest keeping the 1/2 tune and experimenting moving them forward a little.

If passing the CSIA L3 is the objective, it might be better not to move the binding significantly forward unless one has a real anatomical anomaly that requires it. The CSIA examiners are looking for a) ski performance, and b) the fundamental skills used to achieve it. They are very good at spotting when one “cheats” at (b) to achieve (a).

Moving the bindings forward "a little" is probably harmless, but also unlikely to be of much help for meeting the L3 standard. Having been obsessed about the CSIA L3/L4 for the last decade and attended/spectated many, many exams, I'm of the opinion that 99% of failed candidates (including myself) are committing major technical errors in their skiing that no equipment changes will fix, and just need to go back and work on the fundamentals rather than obsess about equipment. If you saw all the footage I've shot of actual exams, it'd be painfully obvious, but of course I won't post it because I don't have consent from the subjects.

 

[Slasher]

@geepers i personally think a heavier ski would fit your objective of L3 better. I’d suggest a Rossi P800 as a more versatile but firm snow biased ski for you to try. I don’t know about CSIA, but our PSIA examiners don’t really like to see SL skis at exams. If you bring a race derived ski, they seem to prefer a GS oriented ski.

I think you are spot on for the CSIA L4 assessment. The go for the folk undertaking that seems to be long radius skis. There were a few candidates on the L3 last year who were using Rossi Heros who scored ok. But I don't know for sure. Think I need all the ski help I can get. These courses are full of 20 y/o full time instructors!

In Soviet Canuckistan, i.e. for CSIA exams:
- relying on a 12m ski will likely be a fail at both L3 and L4
- L3: a lot of successful candidates use a ~15m ski
- L4: you definitely need to show good skiing using a ~18 m ski
All above ski radii are approximate (+/- 1m), and these are just rough rules of thumb for which there are always exceptions.

The thing to understand is that the CSIA examiners want to see you "bend the ski" to varying degrees of amplitude and refinement -- attend enough courses or exams and you'll hear them use this phrase over and over again. Importantly, you must bend the ski WITHOUT riding the nose (the tail would just wash out), therefore you must be centered, mobile, separated, angulated and coordinated. A 12m ski is not versatile enough for all the L3 exam tasks (especially "Advanced Parallel", i.e. long turns), and it makes it HARDER to demonstrate angulation skills. A 18m ski requires "elite" skills to properly bend, which they're looking for on the L4 exam. 15m is the sweet spot for L3.

 

[Tom675]

I am on the Rossi Hero MT in a 167. I can honestly say i have not been so pleased with a ski in a long time. Easy to turn and play full yet, they are stable, responsive and carve smooth short and medium turn. I skied them yesterday on some east coast hard pack bumps in the trees and felt they performed really really well.

 

[James]

I find it strange that people are so concerned with sidecut. If examiners can't tell a good skier on a slalom ski, shame on them. Can't get angulation on a slalom ski? What planet are they on? I guess Mikaela and Hirscher don't have much. Long turns? How long are we talking?
A Head Rally has about as much sidecut btw, 13.7m at 170. Versus 12.5-13 at 165. So really, with it's extra flotation due to width, the Rally is the cheater.
It's not the skis, it's what you do with them.

Having said that, I don't recommend a slalom ski for these things unless that's your thing. A 15m -18m ski 75-85mm is a good choice. It's the whole package though, flex, sidecut, profile, tip shape. Saying it requires "elite skills" to bend an 18m ski is strange. What if it's super soft?

Some people in psia are the same way about skis. Apparently there was some meeting where it was a talking point that people who ski slalom type skis don't "turn their legs". This then spread throughout the land. I heard that line last year, so I've spent most of this year on a 21m 180 cheater gs. I happen to like the ski. Nevermind I used to ski a 192cm 95mm, 22m ski at times. Or, straight skis years ago.

I ski no differently, I just don't hear the same comment. Me thinks the ma skills of some need improvement. Possibly now I'll pull out the 113cm elan carvers so I can hear about those.

Get something that you feel comfortable on and that supports what you're trying to do. I'd stay under 85mm. Personally I think a Rally is a wanna be for these things. Way too huge of a tip won't help in bumps. But if you feel great on it, go for it.

 

[geepers]

Doing a CSIA L3 training module this week - just completed the 1st day in seriously Siberian weather.

Have trained previously with the Course Convener. Says the candidate's choice of ski makes no difference to assessment. As I have no desire nor enough years left to proceed to L4 - assuming I can ever pass L3 - I'll leave the 20m / 30m radius skis to those who do.

Impressed by the Blizzard Firebirds - 3 sets in my group this module and a lot of resort instructors on that ski. See if I can score a test drive.

@Philpug Fischer DTX suggestion still top of mind. Course Convener, a Fischer guy, also thought they would be the choice over the GT.

In the meantime, still working on improving the archer.

 

[Mike King]

I find it strange that people are so concerned with sidecut. If examiners can't tell a good skier on a slalom ski, shame on them. Can't get angulation on a slalom ski? What planet are they on? I guess Mikaela and Hirscher don't have much. Long turns? How long are we talking?
A Head Rally has about as much sidecut btw, 13.7m at 170. Versus 12.5-13 at 165. So really, with it's extra flotation due to width, the Rally is the cheater.
It's not the skis, it's what you do with them.

Having said that, I don't recommend a slalom ski for these things unless that's your thing. A 15m -18m ski 75-85mm is a good choice. It's the whole package though, flex, sidecut, profile, tip shape. Saying it requires "elite skills" to bend an 18m ski is strange. What if it's super soft?

Some people in psia are the same way about skis. Apparently there was some meeting where it was a talking point that people who ski slalom type skis don't "turn their legs". This then spread throughout the land. I heard that line last year, so I've spent most of this year on a 21m 180 cheater gs. I happen to like the ski. Nevermind I used to ski a 192cm 95mm, 22m ski at times. Or, straight skis years ago.

I ski no differently, I just don't hear the same comment. Me thinks the ma skills of some need improvement. Possibly now I'll pull out the 113cm elan carvers so I can hear about those.

Get something that you feel comfortable on and that supports what you're trying to do. I'd stay under 85mm. Personally I think a Rally is a wanna be for these things. Way too huge of a tip won't help in bumps. But if you feel great on it, go for it.

What national team members told us about slalom skis was that examiners want to see that you can turn a ski inside it’s turning radius. Hard to show that on a 12m radius ski.

Mike

 

[Philpug]

@Philpug Fischer DTX suggestion still top of mind. Course Convener, a Fischer guy, also thought they would be the choice over the GT.

In the meantime, still working on improving the archer.

Yup.

 

[Mike King]

@geepers, evidently the Firebirds are a hit here as well. I understand they are cheaper, and were available, from online vendors in Italy. Cheaper than pro form.

 

[Erik Timmerman]

@Philpug Fischer DTX suggestion still top of mind. Course Convener, a Fischer guy, also thought they would be the choice over the GT.

DTX is a great ski, but seriously, check out the Pro Mountain 86 and the new RC One 86GT.

As for radius, I don't think that a slalom ski makes it easier to pass your exams (talking generally, not to you Geepers). The people I am training for L3 seem to have a hard time being patient in the longer turns when they are on a ski like that. By the time they reach the fall line, they turned their legs as far as they can go and are stuck in "park and ride" for the rest of the turn. In the meantime, it is not a hard thing to bang out nice short turns on an 18m ski. With that said, IMHO it is stupid to be running a 30m 188 at any kind of tryout too - though people do, and some of them may be the ones doing the assessing.

 

[James]

What national team members told us about slalom skis was that examiners want to see that you can turn a ski inside it’s turning radius. Hard to show that on a 12m radius ski.
Mike

That's still a pretty big diameter circle. 60 feet lets say at 10 m effective sidecut. Not very hard to show.

 

[nrcd]

How would the Stockli Laser AX play in to this equation?

I am in exactly the same place as geepers (Australian getting ready for L3 CSIA exams) and pretty much the same size as well (10lb heavier). This is a fantastic thread, thanks all for the info.

 

[mike_m]

Can’t believe nobody has mentioned the ski everyone rates the best for what the OP is asking for: Stockli Laser AX.

167 length for his size (they ski long).

 

[James]

Can’t believe nobody has mentioned the ski everyone rates the best for what the OP is asking for: Stockli Laser AX.

167 length for his size (they ski long).

Well the wedding would be expensive...

Honestly OP, just go out and have a few one day stands and pick one.

 

[geepers]

Well the wedding would be expensive...

Honestly OP, just go out and have a few one day stands and pick one.

Not as expensive as picking a ski where it turns out we don't have all that much in common.

Wish I could try before buy. In this part of the woods it seems more MAFS.

 

[Mike King]

That's still a pretty big diameter circle. 60 feet lets say at 10 m effective sidecut. Not very hard to show.

So you’d think, but they want to see you do it on a ski that’s got a radius of something like 18+.

How would the Stockli Laser AX play in to this equation?

I am in exactly the same place as geepers (Australian getting ready for L3 CSIA exams) and pretty much the same size as well (10lb heavier). This is a fantastic thread, thanks all for the info.

If I recall correctly, @Magi adopted that ski as his exam ski and attained PSIA level 3 last season.