Seeking playful groomer ski for a long term serious relationship

[geepers]

• What resort do you ski most?

• What runs do you like most?

• Do you ski off piste or stick to groomers?

• Do you seek out or avoid moguls -- or do you dabble and want to get better?

• What is your height and weight?

• What skis are you currently skiing and what do you like most (and what do you not like) about them?

• What boots are you in?

So, as per Tricia's matchmaking 7.....

1. Resorts: must be prepared to travel between Australia (who knows what may be encountered there in any given year - concrete to fluff) and western Canadian resorts like Big White, Silver Star and occasional side trips to other nearby resorts.

2. Runs: must be happy with variety as we are going to be telling our story to each other on a range of runs from mild blues to bumpy blacks and dbl blacks. Must be happy showing our stuff to the judges on: short steered turns; carving parallels at advanced speed (don't worry, nothing much above 50 mph); and medium black moguls.

3. Piste or groomers: must not get too jealous if I go out with other skis on pow days. But a bit of versatility for skiing the glades and trees would be appreciated.

4. Moguls: that's where the playful requirement comes in. The bumps are my happy zone and I'm not going to get along with something that has all the spring and zing of your average house brick. If we don't bogey together in the bumps in the first 30 seconds it's going to be a short relationship.

5. Height: 5'11' Weight: 165lbs fully loaded (helmet, boots, fruit bars, lodge keys, etc)

6. Other skis: must get along with...
i. Blizzard Bushwackers (from 2014/15) 88mm 165cm a light, playful ski, a good ski in the bumps, and all I seem to need for pow days. OTOH a bit light for the crud (gets kicked around), and not the most re-assuring at higher speed carving. It's also getting a little long in the tooth with something like 200 days of happy flexing although there still seems to be life to be lived.
ii. Rossignol Exp 84 (from 2017/18 with Look binding) 84mm, 170cm, firm frontside all-mountain ski, that seems to do nothing particularly badly nor outstandingly well. Confident in higher speed carving. OTOH it's a heavy ski/binding combo I'm finding it exhausting at the start of trips and it copes in the bumps through willpower rather than finesse. I'd rather something more playful for a daily driver.

Last year I also tried (all last season's models):
Head Supershape iMagnums - great carvers but way too heavy and not at all playful in the bumps
Volkl Kendos and Kanjos - I don't know, I just don't seem to get along with Volkl skis, Then again I didn't try any Volkl below 80mm
Salomon XDR 80 Ti - a contact lent me his for a morning. He swore by them. I swore at them.
Atomic Vantage 84 - lwell, actually matched pretty well my Bushwackers. So would be duplication.
Fischer RC4 The Curv GT - carved great, light playful. Actually it may be the right answer but I went for the Rossi 's.
Rossignol Hero ST - that was in Australia. The demo pair had seen better days, needed a tune and it was a hot, slushy day. They loved to carve, handled short turns well. Perhaps a tad indifferent to bumps.

7. Boots: Nordica NRGy Pro 3 2015
I'm hoping any ski relationship won't be dictating boot relationship! Those Nordicas fit like house slippers. (Well, not really but you know how it is with comfortable boots...)


You'll need to be a curvy ski with a sub-80mm waist and you'll need to assist me in demo tasks for CSIA L3, and especially shorts turns, advanced (carving) parallels and bumps. which may be assessed on boiler plate ice or hero snow depending on luck. In return I promise to wax you every 3-4 days and maintain your edges.

In the past I've always dated skis before committing to long term but it seems not likely to happen here. In a sign of the times the narrowest skis in the shop here are 84mm. And I already have an ok relationship with a pair that...ah...shape.

Looking for some recommendations. The Fischer RC4 The Curv GT may be a good bet - not sure if there were any changes for this season from last. Or if there's a possible better option.

 

[Philpug]

Getting down into the 70's offers you some good options. The first skis that come to mind are as follows

Liberty VMT 76, light, fun in the bumps, fun on the groomers.

Fischer Curv DTX, a bit more playful than the GT, since you also do not weigh that much.

Dynastar Speedzone 10, little brother to the 12, a bit softer. BEtter in on the groomers than in the bumps though.

Atomic Vantage X 80...you liked the 83, so did I, the 80 would be a better complement to your Bushwhackers.

 

[Jilly]

Change the Hero to the new MT, but you'll need the Ti version. Very similar to the SpeedZone.

 

[geepers]

@Philpug , good recommendations there. Have to read reviews. I'll drop the Dynastars re bump comment.

@Jilly , why the MT over the ST? Do you bump with the MT?


Thank you both for taking the time to comment.

 

[James]

Does the Liberty 76 have the same low profile tip of the other VMT's? That would concern me in bumps. Otherwise, the flex is very nice, and the shape is nice. Looks like the tip is 126mm? Better than the Rossis for bumps likely.

The Rossi MT is 74mm underfoot, the ST 68mm, the Plus 78. With the Plus you're getting a 130mm tip, which is pretty big.

You'd ski around 170cm?

https://issuu.com/levnelyze/docs/rossignol_alpine_1819_gb_web/8?ff

 

[LewyM]

I ski in Okanagan B.C. quite a bit so I think I understand what you are looking for. You could add a more carving oriented ski for sure - that would be fun at a place like Big White on many days. But then you note that you want to ski the soft stuff and not feel sad. . . and you love the bumps. So while Phil offered some good suggestions in that category, I am not sure that is what your are truly asking for.

The truth is that you probably already have potentially "right" skis in your quiver, just sized wrong. For Big White, if I could only have one ski, it would be something in the ~88 category. The snow is light enough that you don't need too much width and it tends to come in flurries of 8cm, 10cm, 5com - not feet. And the groomers are soft most days, so an all-mountain ski in this width isn't really a compromise on groomers if you are also skiing in the trees, bumps, off the Cliff area, etc. . . (which are the zones I'd optimize for personally). A carving-oriented ski for the groomers off Ridge Rocket and Gem would also be fun, especially to have in the condo for early morning corduroy. Again, I don't hear you asking for that.

I think that the Bushwacker (or whatever they call a Brahma without metal these days) is probably a "right" ski for you, but you are skiing it in way to small a length. 165cm for an adult 5'11 (my height) is tiny. Like ski blades tiny. The reason that it folds up at speed is you are skiing it at least one click, if not 2 clicks too small. 173 at least, 180 is probably right for your height, but there are likely other factors going on here that might contribute to sizing down.

But any of the non-metal, less charging sorts of skis in the 88 zone would be dynamite for Big White and probably what you want, ultimately. Rossi E88 (newer shape with the more neutral tip), Dynastar Legend 88, Bushwacker, K2 Pinnacle 88 (not beloved by all cool kids, but probably a perfect ski for your narrative and dirt cheap on close out in a couple of weeks), those would all be nice choices and would retire both of your E84 and your 165 Bushwackers all at once. Maybe something from Armada, and people are really liking the Liberty V series. Maybe a Nordica Navigator. The pros here will have great suggestions and most will work out just fine.

I haven't been on a ton of skis like this, but I understand the scenario and to me, the huge red flag is an adult male, 5'11" (180cm) riding a 165 Bushwacker. The sizing assumptions are way off - and if you are downsizing to make a particular ski more manageable, it is too much ski (also an important data point). The instability at speed and in rough'ish snow is telling you something important.

 

[James]

The truth is that you probably already have potentially "right" skis in your quiver, just sized wrong.

Good point.
Dude, what's up with this dating midgets? Is it an Aussie thing?

You really should get comfortable on longer skis even if you go back. Just for your own confidence. I skied short for many years and due to knee injuries didn't want to go up. I ski a much wider range now.

 

[Jilly]

The Rossi MT is 74mm underfoot, the ST 68mm, the Plus 78. With the Plus you're getting a 130mm tip, which is pretty big.

This. Forgot about the Plus. All the 4's around here are on the Rossi ST or the Dynastar 12. If they aren't on Head.

 

[geepers]

I ski in Okanagan B.C. quite a bit so I think I understand what you are looking for. You could add a more carving oriented ski for sure - that would be fun at a place like Big White on many days. But then you note that you want to ski the soft stuff and not feel sad. . . and you love the bumps. So while Phil offered some good suggestions in that category, I am not sure that is what your are truly asking for.

The truth is that you probably already have potentially "right" skis in your quiver, just sized wrong. For Big White, if I could only have one ski, it would be something in the ~88 category. The snow is light enough that you don't need too much width and it tends to come in flurries of 8cm, 10cm, 5com - not feet. And the groomers are soft most days, so an all-mountain ski in this width isn't really a compromise on groomers if you are also skiing in the trees, bumps, off the Cliff area, etc. . . (which are the zones I'd optimize for personally). A carving-oriented ski for the groomers off Ridge Rocket and Gem would also be fun, especially to have in the condo for early morning corduroy. Again, I don't hear you asking for that.

I think that the Bushwacker (or whatever they call a Brahma without metal these days) is probably a "right" ski for you, but you are skiing it in way to small a length. 165cm for an adult 5'11 (my height) is tiny. Like ski blades tiny. The reason that it folds up at speed is you are skiing it at least one click, if not 2 clicks too small. 173 at least, 180 is probably right for your height, but there are likely other factors going on here that might contribute to sizing down.

But any of the non-metal, less charging sorts of skis in the 88 zone would be dynamite for Big White and probably what you want, ultimately. Rossi E88 (newer shape with the more neutral tip), Dynastar Legend 88, Bushwacker, K2 Pinnacle 88 (not beloved by all cool kids, but probably a perfect ski for your narrative and dirt cheap on close out in a couple of weeks), those would all be nice choices and would retire both of your E84 and your 165 Bushwackers all at once. Maybe something from Armada, and people are really liking the Liberty V series. Maybe a Nordica Navigator. The pros here will have great suggestions and most will work out just fine.

I haven't been on a ton of skis like this, but I understand the scenario and to me, the huge red flag is an adult, 5'11" (180cm) riding a 165 Bushwacker. The sizing assumptions are way off - and if you are downsizing to make a particular ski more manageable, it is too much ski (also an important data point). The instability at speed and in rough'ish snow is telling you something important.

Thanks for your thoughts. If I was free-skiing BW I would agree that an 88mm be about the perfect choice for a one ski quiver.

But I'm not - I'm planning to have another go at CSIA L3 where I need all the help I can get with the technical tasks. Conditions for assessment are up to the snow gods. Late March - what's the odds of getting scrapped hard-pack, or melt-freeze or .... (This season I'm at Silver Star and conditions are very firm in late January.) Hence the sub-80mm.

Also conditions in Oz are typically firmer than BW.

Yep, the length was a deliberate choice. Three seasons ago my requirements were purely recreational and I went for the lightest, shortest ski that would give me the most skiing. That season I did 120 days (101 at BW), 2.5 million vertical feet and 4,200kms. Don't regret that decision to go for the short ski at all. The next longer Bushwacker skied completely differently. Not nearly as effortlessly.

Light is really important to me. Last Oz season I skied individual weeks purely on the Rossi - the Bushwackers stayed in Canada. Finished each week exhausted. Same thing has happened here and I'm back on the Bushwackers for some rest and recovery. Should probably go at it a little easier in the early days of my season. but how the heck does anyone sit in the lodge when there's snow on the ground and good vis?

Long reply, but helping me sort my own thoughts on best fit.

Dude, what's up with this dating midgets? Is it an Aussie thing?

Overall I think weight in a bigger factor in determining ski length than height - and I always get lighter as the ski weeks pass. Based on past history I'll drop 8-12 lbs over the next couple of months. Here's 180cm tall Paul Lorenze skiing here on 165s.

Ok, maybe it is an Aussie thing....
.

 

[Slasher]

I'm planning to have another go at CSIA L3 where I need all the help I can get with the technical tasks.

I’ll make it easy for you: Head iSupershape Rally. Of course there’s many other options, some similar, others less so, but it’s the single most popular ski for exam tasks with the CSIA L3 and L4 crowd in BC. Just get it, then focus on improving the archer rather than obsessing about the arrow.

 

[James]

"Here's 180cm tall Paul Lorenz skiing here on 165s."
That's a slalom ski? Bryce Bennett is over 200cm and skis the same size. It's not relevant. An fis slalom ski isn't a terrible choice for you in firm country, but a little more width would be better.

You're over 160lbs, not exactly light. Lithe.

I don't know of any "light" skis that do what you want. Afaik, the people you will be examining with don't ski light skis but more carving oriented mid 70's skis.
I suspect something is going on with your Rossi. Maybe the mount point is too far aft? Is it not flat? , edge high? That can make it seem heavy on hard snow.
Anyway, here's one of your Canadian examiners, Jf Beaulieu, on one of the Rossi products from 4 yrs ago. That ain't no light ski, it's got a plate on it. It's the ST or LT I think.

I’ll make it easy for you: Head iSupershape Rally.

If it was the first Rally, maybe. The current one has a bloated tip and has lost it's good qualities. The Titan would be better, but even there I might stay away due to tip.

 

[Erik Timmerman]

If you thought the Curv GT was close, check out the new RC One 86GT. It's off-piste chops are better than the Curv GT and it doesn't seem to give up much on piste.

 

[Andy Mink]

I'll toss the DPS Trainer out there. Carvy, poppy, lightish.

 

[PinnacleJim]

Your set of requirements almost perfectly describes the new Head V-Shape V8. I demoed it this December and was VERY impressed. LIght, close to the hard snow performance of the Rally, but not as demanding.

 

[geepers]

Thanks for the input, guys and ladies. Working through the reviews and facts /figures.

 

[Rod MacDonald]

Out of concern- what did you hate about the xdr80 ? Sitting here with a brand new set of xdr84ti that haven't seen snow yet....

 

[Mike King]

@geepers i personally think a heavier ski would fit your objective of L3 better. I’d suggest a Rossi P800 as a more versatile but firm snow biased ski for you to try. I don’t know about CSIA, but our PSIA examiners don’t really like to see SL skis at exams. If you bring a race derived ski, they seem to prefer a GS oriented ski.

My ski for exam training is a Kastle MX84. It is not light but I weigh close to 200 pounds.

 

[Jilly]

I need to take a better look at the Interski team training runs at Panorama....but I think they are all on narrower than wider skis. In JF's video, he's on the Rossi ST Ti. Not sure what he's on this year. He only does the french sessions.

Most of the 3 and 4's at Tremblant are on a tuned down slalom ski. But we're in the east and it can be icy.

Are you thinking of doing your 3 here or in NZ? Because NZ might be more like NA east.

 

[geepers]

Out of concern- what did you hate about the xdr80 ? Sitting here with a brand new set of xdr84ti that haven't seen snow yet....

I wouldn't get too concerned. Was taking a bit of poetic license with that 'swearing at'. I just didn't gel with them for carving in the same way I did with the iTitans, Fischer GTs or last year's Rossi Exp84. The owner of that pair of XDRs was very attached to them - in fact I was a little surprised he offered the test drive.

I kind of feel if I don't make friends with a pair of skis very quickly it's probably best to try the next speed date.

 

[geepers]

@geepers i personally think a heavier ski would fit your objective of L3 better. I’d suggest a Rossi P800 as a more versatile but firm snow biased ski for you to try. I don’t know about CSIA, but our PSIA examiners don’t really like to see SL skis at exams. If you bring a race derived ski, they seem to prefer a GS oriented ski.

My ski for exam training is a Kastle MX84. It is not light but I weigh close to 200 pounds.

Hi Mike,
I think you are spot on for the CSIA L4 assessment. The go for the folk undertaking that seems to be long radius skis. There were a few candidates on the L3 last year who were using Rossi Heros who scored ok. But I don't know for sure. Think I need all the ski help I can get. These courses are full of 20 y/o full time instructors!

Are you thinking of doing your 3 here or in NZ? Because NZ might be more like NA east.

Canada. Currently firm conditions on this mountain. Which was a lot of fun this morning.