Scary - lift roll back in Georgia

[Dadskier]

somebody post on this that knows more than I- On a rollback would there not be an E-stop electrical or mechanical or both to stop or arrest this during the event. I know there are variables, operator, year built, real safety checks ect. Or is the rollback a complete system fail and anything in place that would stop this has already hard failed?
Painful vid to watch.

I think there are supposed to be 3 back-ups to prevent this. There's a lot of failure happening here. Pretty sure with the King Pine lift at Sugarloaf, a couple failed, but the operator was able to hit a manual stop (I'd have to look up exactly what happened, but that's the gist) and saved the day.

 

[cantunamunch]

. I wonder whether with or without skis, though. Some of the jumpers looked like they were encumbered on the ground by their skis.

Unless the ground was super-soft I'd go with skis - on. It's faster (leave the chair quicker), there's an equal or better chance that I can spread the impact in space and time, and secondary impact from other skiers (encumbered getaway scenario) seems far less weighty in consequences than anything primary.

I have -zero- confidence in liftmates in scenarios like this, all it would take is one person panic-frozen with their feet on the footrest to render a plan like @coskigirl 's unworkable. I'm definitely sliding out under the bar - I never use the footrests nor straddle the vertical strut. Not concerned about ACL - I've practiced enough PLFs that I know that's what I'll try to do unless I am somehow rotated onto my back or bum.

 

[Jerry]

PLFs - Parachute Landing Fall or Pray Like F*ck

 

[Doug Briggs]

Unless the ground was super-soft I'd go with skis - on. It's faster (leave the chair quicker), there's an equal or better chance that I can spread the impact in space and time, and secondary impact from other skiers (encumbered getaway scenario) seems far less weighty in consequences than anything primary.

I have -zero- confidence in liftmates in scenarios like this, all it would take is one person panic-frozen with their feet on the footrest to render a plan like @coskigirl 's unworkable. I'm definitely sliding out under the bar - I never use the footrests nor straddle the vertical strut. Not concerned about ACL - I've practiced enough PLFs that I know that's what I'll try to do unless I am somehow rotated onto my back or bum.

I guess I'll have to take up skydiving to make skiing safer.

 

[Muleski]

I think there are supposed to be 3 back-ups to prevent this. There's a lot of failure happening here. Pretty sure with the King Pine lift at Sugarloaf, a couple failed, but the operator was able to hit a manual stop (I'd have to look up exactly what happened, but that's the gist) and saved the day.

Actually, the gearbox that is in-between the electric motor and the bull wheel failed, so the first automatic "brake" which works on the shaft of that gearbox shaft had no effect on the spinning bull wheel.

The lift foreman was quick to see what was going on, and applied the back up brake, which is is a manual process. Pretty sure it's a caliper on the bull wheel, hydraulically set. That slowed it down and eventually brought it to a stop.

The third brake is very "old school". It's a huge pin that is supposed to drop into the bull wheel and stop it in it's tracks. Not sure if one of those has ever been used. I was told that it seemed like it would be real hard to see that pin drop into a spinning bullwheel.

The lift had been through a thorough inspection less than a week earlier, and they do a daily early AM run through. Freak deal.

The end result was that Boyne/Sugarloaf replaced the entire lower drive terminal, all of the sheaves, and I think the haul cable. Basically new lift. It's a workhorse. With the prior derailment of Spillway, and with the US Alpine Nationals about to start at that time, Sugarloaf was all over this one.

BTW, when these take off, it's a lot faster that it looks in video. Friends on the lift at Sugarloaf had to process what was going on. Then they realized they had to get off, and basically time the jump so it was not too close to the base, and not too high in the air. Luckily the lift has a shallow entry fairly close to the ground. I don't recall anybody that I knew weighing kicking off their skis. Things were moving fast and they were terrified. But it was moving slower than the one in this video.

One of the problems at Sugarloaf was that people who jumped were then in shock and staring at the lift and others rolling back....when ideally they would have quickly cleared back so others had room to cleanly jump off. The one in the video is very scary. The chairs are very close to the snow.

Seeing this video of people being tossed is terrifying.....

 

[Wilhelmson]

Jumping a lift into powder isn't so bad. When going in a forward direction it's important to clear the chair so it doesn't hit you in the head. Seems like keeping the skis on would prevent an ankle or leg from bending on an uneven landing.

 

[Doug Briggs]

@Wilhelmson , I concur that skis might make the landing easier and safer. If you can bail before the cluster near the bottom that's good. If you have to bail right near the base of the lift, you want to be able to get out of the way of others.

@cantunamunch , good point about not trusting others to respond with readiness. The bar certainly is an issue and I may never straddle the down-post of another one again.

 

[Carolinacub]

Very scary....kudos to those at the bottom who helped get folks out of harms way. As for what you do in this situation I'm sure a big part was where you were at on the lift. the farther from the load out area the more time you have to think things through and also the more time onlookers have to give directions as you go by. No perfect answers since each situation has different parameters. On a slightly positive note (and I really mean slightly) since we are here talking about this if it should ever happen to any of us we might be able to react appropriately for the situation.

Edit: I've already sent an e-mail to our patrol director with a copy of the video and my suggestion that we at least address this type situation at our refresher and during lift evac training.

 

[DonC]

Though standing and filming is definitely not good samaritan behavior, I'm glad that this was caught on video. Better to be able to envision what can go wrong in advance.

 

[crgildart]

Though standing and filming is definitely not good samaritan behavior, I'm glad that this was caught on video. Better to be able to envision what can go wrong in advance.

And, liability lawyers in Georgia will be glad to have it. Europe isn't as sue happy as the US but I would imagine there will be a hefty sum of damages awarded to these folks no matter what the back of their ticket says..

 

[SpikeDog]

Skier's nightmare for sure. Looks to me like skis OFF worked out better for those jumping early. The hard part wasn't the jump, but getting out of the way of the next chair.

Jumping off while going backwards almost ensures you'll snap your head into the snow. If you could jump off and spin 180 it would be better.

Another good reason to wear a helmet?!?

 

[Doug Briggs]

There wasn't much that could be done safely while the lift was still rolling back. Maybe help the jumpers, but those that had been stuck in the path of the chairs were pretty much unhelpable.

 

[Core2]

Someone on Reddit said the lift had a power failure while fully loaded and the emergency stops failed then gravity took over. In one of the vids it looks like the power kicks on at the end and stops the rollback. Scary, scary stuff.

 

[coskigirl]

Skier's nightmare for sure. Looks to me like skis OFF worked out better for those jumping early. The hard part wasn't the jump, but getting out of the way of the next chair.

That is also part of my thinking. I'm pretty sure the likelihood of me landing in a position to just ski away while the lift is flinging me backwards is pretty near zero. If I land prone without skis I can at least start rolling away even if I've broken a leg or arm.

 

[Uncle Louie]

Actually, the gearbox that is in-between the electric motor and the bull wheel failed, so the first automatic "brake" which works on the shaft of that gearbox shaft had no effect on the spinning bull wheel.

The lift foreman was quick to see what was going on, and applied the back up brake, which is is a manual process. Pretty sure it's a capiler on the bull wheel, hydraulically set. That slowed it down and eventually brought it to a stop.

The third brake is very "old school". It's a huge pin that is supposed to drop into the bull wheel and stop it in it's tracks. Not sure if one of those has ever been used. I was told that it seemed like it would be real hard to see that pin drop into a spinning bullwheel.

The lift had been through a through inspection less than a week earlier, and they do a daily early AM run through. Freak deal.

The end result was that Boyne/Sugarloaf replaced the entire lower drive terminal, all of the sheaves, and I think the haul cable. Basically new lift. It's a workhorse. With the prior derailment of Spillway, and with the US Alpine Nationals about to start at that time, Sugarloaf was all over this one.

BTW, when these take off, it's a lot faster that it looks in video. Friends on the lift had to process what was going on. Then the realized they had to get off, and basically time the jump so it was not too close to the base, and not too high in the air. Luckily the lift has a shadow entry fairly close to the ground. I don't recall anybody that I knew weighing kicking off their skis.

One of the problems was that people who jumped were then in shock and staring at the lift and others rolling back....when Ideally they would have quickly cleared back so others had room to cleanly jump off. This one was very scary.

Seeing this video of people being tossed is terrifying.....

I had a room mate one season that had worked lifts for a few years. The description Muleski gave in his post above is the same understanding I have of the brake system.

As far as the speed of the lift in free unrestricted reverse I heard you could expect the speed to hit 40 mph in about 8 seconds on an average loaded lift over Intermediate terrain.

I know of 2 lift roll backs that happened in Mass and Southern VT many many years ago. In both cases chairs actually flew off at the lower bullwheel much like the bodies we see in the videos. In the roll back that happened in Southern VT when the lift did stop (suddenly) the counter weight reacted violently and the cable at the top between the last and second to last tower acted like a slingshot launching people into the air.

 

[Tricia]

Though standing and filming is definitely not good samaritan behavior, I'm glad that this was caught on video. Better to be able to envision what can go wrong in advance.

Like you, I was thinking....who has the foresight to capture this on video? Then I thought, but its a heck of a PSA

 

[Talisman]

That is also part of my thinking. I'm pretty sure the likelihood of me landing in a position to just ski away while the lift is flinging me backwards is pretty near zero. If I land prone without skis I can at least start rolling away even if I've broken a leg or arm.

Jumping with skis off would be best, but jumping with skis on or off before the chair goes around the bull wheel is a must as getting flung introduces violent tangential acceleration possibly into fixed objects like chairs, signs or lift corral fencing.

 

[YolkyPalky]

Yikes, those crazy Soviets! LOL.

Glad no one was hurt beyond scrapes and such.

Looks like it's going to be a lot more "Touring" skiing in Georgia for awhile

 

[Zrxman01]

Bull (wheel) Winkle.

 

[Tricia]

Thought I'd share just for kicks:
This lift from Sierra at Tahoe this morning isn't going to roll back.